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The Fastest Bowler ever?

Fastest of them all?

  • Harold Larwood

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shaun Tait

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Andy Roberts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Michael Holding

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dennis Lillee

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Colin Croft

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Patrick Patterson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Charles Kortright

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mohammad Sami

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shane Bond

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lockie Ferguson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mitchell Starc

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mitchell Johnson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Umran Malik

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mayank Yadav

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anrich Nortje

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mark Wood

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brett Schultz

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Malcolm Marshall

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Allan Donald

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jofra Archer

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fred Trueman

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ray Lindwall

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Devon Malcolm

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mohammad Zahid

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Haris Rauf

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    39

BazBall21

International Captain
There were two sets of results and one of them was quite a bit different to the other one. I'd be skeptical. And that was him at his absolute quickest so it's a bit unfair to suggest he would have been regularly hitting 160 throughout his career unlike Shoaib on that basis. No doubt Thomson and Holding were very fast though.
 

Patience and Accuracy+Gut

State Vice-Captain
There were two sets of results and one of them was quite a bit different to the other one. I'd be skeptical. No doubt Thomson and Holding were very fast though.
But Thommo was clearly quicker in all scenarios of measurement ahead of everyone. Just look at some of the deliveries from Thommo’s footage. Absolute rapid.
 

Migara

International Coach
Shoaib was no faster than Thommo too. Thommo did breach the 160 kmph barrier in those limited scenarios. Shoaib barely crossed that despite being recorded for his entire career.
This is just speculation.

There was a great urban myth that Thommo had bowled a ball to carry over the boundary without bouncing hence he was fater than any one. Then Jofra Archer did it with 89mph on the clock. There is massive hyping up going on.

 

sayon basak

International Vice-Captain
This is just speculation.

There was a great urban myth that Thommo had bowled a ball to carry over the boundary without bouncing hence he was fater than any one. Then Jofra Archer did it with 89mph on the clock. There is massive hyping up going on.

That ball hit the bails. So, not surprising it got some kinetic energy boost.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Thommo hit 100 mph way earlier. Tyson probably bowled as fast as anyone right now. Tbh Don’t think the threshold has been reached, there just haven’t been super express quicks.
Main problem is that it simply isn't worth it to try and bowl that fast. Not that younger generation players couldn't if the dedicated their careers to it. If you hear the accounts of Shoaib of how he trained to maximize pace, the injuries of Tait, you know it's not a joke to get that level of speed. But for what? A shorter and less lucrative career, where you might be a touch more useful for a handful of spells. Everyone with half a brain on their shoulders has opted out of that bargain, and instead gone for a fast speed which they can actually bowl with consistency for decent length spells from innings to innings and match to match.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
But Thommo was clearly quicker in all scenarios of measurement ahead of everyone. Just look at some of the deliveries from Thommo’s footage. Absolute rapid.
He was probably the fastest bowler of his time but I would be skeptical regarding the precise accuracy of those results and Shoaib not bowling exclusively 100mph throughout his career shouldn't be used against him when Thomson obviously wasn't either. He lost pace following his return in the 80s and that's reflected in his results.
 

Qlder

International Regular
He was probably the fastest bowler of his time but I would be skeptical regarding the precise accuracy of those results and Shoaib not bowling exclusively 100mph throughout his career shouldn't be used against him when Thomson obviously wasn't either. He lost pace following his return in the 80s and that's reflected in his results.
Just shows how little you know about Thommo. He was express pace and easily referred to as fastest ever until his shoulder injury in late 1976. He never bowled that pace again after injury so of course he was slower in the '80's
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Myth that Thommo could bowl much faster than the others is just funny. He was certainly up there, and may have bowled a delivery that was faster, but all we can verify is what we have, so it's stupid to give him The Fastest Ever Title, when we know there's something of a threshold around the 100 mph mark for multiple bowlers, and we don't have a measurement where he goes beyond it. So it's likely he maxes out around that range, not some number much higher.

It's funny, because there's the exact same myth around Nolan Ryan. They say he pitched 108, at a time which just so happened before we had the modern type speed guns. So they extrapolate from the 100.8 actually measured speed that he threw because they say it measured distance across, and not out of hand. The actual record is set by a more modern pitcher Aroldis Chapman who specializes in outings of not more than around 15-20 pitches, and sits at just shy of 106 mph. Any of this sound familiar? Ryan, while one of the fastest pitchers of all time likely maxed out in the low 100s, which is where a couple of other modern verified "fastest pitchers" max out.

What is even crazier, is there are fans of even older players (Tyson in cricket, Feller in baseball) who even go to frame by frame analysis for even more ludicrous claims. It's a lot of effort, but almost certainly bunk. All we're doing is going to less and less precise speed methodologies, being analyzed by interested parties. My next "record" is going to be that Spofforth bowled 120 mph, by measuring the vibes off Neville Cardus's pen.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's physically impossible per se for older pre 90s bowlers to have bowled just as fast as more modern ones, just find it exceedingly unlikely. Records are set and then broken, in every other speed sport. It's amazing Shoaib has held it for as long as he has, but there's no doubt his will be broken as well by someone just as crazy and probably a bit more advantaged. As an analogy, how many of us doubt the actuality of Bolt's 100m record, and how many think it won't be broken for the next 100 years? It's the length of time that they do hold it before inevitably being broken that makes them the speed "GOATs".

There was no meaningful record before the introduction of the modern style speed guns, and that's just a fact. So why are we thinking that only the hard leather projectile hurling sports are some kind of exception in records being essentially set in "reverse" (faster speeds the farther back in time we dig, and less precise methodology we use). There's no reason to think most of these guys gave too much of a damn anyway about their "one rep max", because they never had a speed gun that would put that measure in their mind. They simply had to be effective bowlers, and if speed was their ticket to that, then that's what they did. But why would they become as speed gun obsessed as Shoaib, when there was no speed gun? The whole notion is absurd.
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Just shows how little you know about Thommo. He was express pace and easily referred to as fastest ever until his shoulder injury in late 1976. He never bowled that pace again after injury so of course he was slower in the '80's
Yeah I mentioned him getting slower because the account I was replying to said Shoaib rarely bowled 100mph and was recorded throughout his career. Obviously Thomson also only rarely hit 100mph throughout his career when his speed peak was brief.
 

Qlder

International Regular
Yeah I mentioned him getting slower because the account I was replying to said Shoaib rarely bowled 100mph and was recorded throughout his career. Obviously that was also the case for Thomson when he was only at his speed peak very briefly.
Thread isn't asking who was the fastest for longest part of career though, Thommo clearly fastest ever before his shoulder injury in 1976 which is also before his natural peak would have been
 

BazBall21

International Captain
Thread isn't asking who was the fastest for longest part of career though, Thommo clearly fastest ever before his shoulder injury in 1976 which is also before his natural peak would have been
I didn't bring up the subject of who was the fastest for longest. I was replying to that point being brought up.
 

shortpitched713

International Captain
Thread isn't asking who was the fastest for longest part of career though, Thommo clearly fastest ever before his shoulder injury in 1976 which is also before his natural peak would have been
Genuinely curious, why do you think that Thommo's "one rep max" (which I believe is the measure in question in this thread), would be meaningfully higher in his "peak" years than when actually measured? Tait for instance hit his measured max when he was strapped up, had elbow tendonitis, and was well established as a two over wonder.

You don't need to be able to bowl comfortably for spells (the measure for actually usefully consistent bowling performance), to be able to rip out a high speed. Just need to have the talent and general machinery all in place.

As another baseball analogy Chapman is now getting close to the speed of his record set about a decade ago, now at the age of 36. (Maybe Ben Joyce has something to do with this :p )
 

Bolo.

International Captain
Fastest deliveries in IPL history:-
Shaun Tait= 157.71 kmph
Lockie Ferguson= 157.3 kmph
Umran Malik= 157.0 kmph
Mayank Yadav= 156.7 kmph
Anrich Nortje= 156.22 kmph

Not sure whether they count or not.
My impression of IPL speedguns is that they are inflated by a couple of kms. Most of the RSA bowlers whose speeds I have watched in RSA are gunning quicker in IPL.

This list is not complete though. I forget decimal points, but I 100% watched Steyn clocked at 157 in the early 2010s. And I'm not sure, but I think I may have watched another bowler or 2 clocked fast enough to hit this list.
 

sayon basak

International Vice-Captain
My impression of IPL speedguns is that they are inflated by a couple of kms. Most of the RSA bowlers whose speeds I have watched in RSA are gunning quicker in IPL.

This list is not complete though. I forget decimal points, but I 100% watched Steyn clocked at 157 in the early 2010s. And I'm not sure, but I think I may have watched another bowler or 2 clocked fast enough to hit this list.
I didn't know that his 156.7 kmph was reliable and thought his fastest ball was 154.4 kmph, that too in IPL.
 
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sayon basak

International Vice-Captain
Shoaib Akhtar's fastest over:-
Average bowling speed=158.03 kmph

Shaun Tait's fastest over:-
Average bowling speed= 156.41 kmph

Brett Lee's fastest over:-
Average bowling speed= 155.57 kmph
Here's Shaun Tait's actual fastest over (faster by 0.1 kmph):-
Average bowling speed= 156.51 kmph
 

Patience and Accuracy+Gut

State Vice-Captain
When Tait got it right, he was quicker than Lee arguably even Shoaib too. He was a good deal bigger and perhaps stronger than either too. Though, I think Shoaib was insanely strong as well.
 

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