The English Season is only 2 weeks away

[Rich2001]

Why has everyone saying Bell should be in the Test team???

Ok I know Bell has ablity and he is certainly one for the coming years.

Ok he had a blinder of a season in 2001, but in 2002 was shockingly poor and Troughton was miles ahead in the race... It will be intresting to see how they both go, if Bell can re-discover some form and if Troughton can continue it.

Bell's 2002 stats

IR Bell - Matches 16 - Inngs 28 - NO's 1 - Runs 658 - HS 77 - Avg 24.37 - SR 42.47 - 100's 0 - 50's 3 - Catches 6

Meanwhile the other two guys

R.Key's 2002 stats

R.Key - Matches 13 - Inngs 26 - NO 1 - Runs 1090 - HS 160 - Avg 43.60 - SR 64.11 - 100's 3 - 50's 5 - Cathes 10

Troughton's 2002 stats

Troughton - Matches 13 - Inngs 22 - NO's 3 - Runs 1052 - HS 131* - Avg 55.36 - SR 52.31 - 100's 3 - 50's 6 - Catches 8

But for you all to drop him for Key who hasn't done anything wrong, seems alittle harsh (but hey your all just say iam being Kent bias)

 

[Rik]

Well for me Key hasn't really cemented his place with any major scores, his HS is only 47...

I wouldn't mind seeing either Bell or Troughton given a go against Zimbabwe depending on who is in better form. Zimbabwe's bowling attack is weak and we need to give some young players a go instead of going back to old failures like Crawley...

 

[Rich2001]

Well for me Key hasn't really cemented his place with any major scores, his HS is only 47...

I wouldn't mind seeing either Bell or Troughton given a go against Zimbabwe depending on who is in better form. Zimbabwe's bowling attack is weak and we need to give some young players a go instead of going back to old failures like Crawley...

Actually to correct you Rik, Rob Key has a Test 50 to his name which he scored against Australia at the MCG. IMO Rob Key got better as the series went on in South Australia he stuck around for over half an hour before lunch before getting a good ball by Warne, he was the sole batsman holding the inngs togeter at the WCCA when he hit that 47 you speak of, then at the next test he improved on the 47 by hitting his 1st Test 50 and I can't honestly remember what happened at the SGC (apart from England Winning )

I think a few Tests against a weaker opposition like Zimbabwe (compared to Australia at least) is the perfect oppotunity for R.Key to get some runs under his belt and become a settled player in the line up.

 

[Rik]

Actually to correct you Rik, Rob Key has a Test 50 to his name which he scored against Australia at the MCG. IMO Rob Key got better as the series went on in South Australia he stuck around for over half an hour before lunch before getting a good ball by Warne, he was the sole batsman holding the inngs togeter at the WCCA when he hit that 47 you speak of, then at the next test he improved on the 47 by hitting his 1st Test 50 and I can't honestly remember what happened at the SGC (apart from England Winning )

I think a few Tests against a weaker opposition like Zimbabwe (compared to Australia at least) is the perfect oppotunity for R.Key to get some runs under his belt and become a settled player in the line up.

Oh so he did get a 50? Key may have impressed people with the way he played but I need proof he can actually score runs consistantly. Also like everyone in England I want to see what a young player like Shah, Troughton or Bell will do, maybe even Strauss. Zimbabwe will be an almost pressure free debut to any young bowler or batsman, why not use it?

 

[Rich2001]

Oh so he did get a 50? Key may have impressed people with the way he played but I need proof he can actually score runs consistantly. Also like everyone in England I want to see what a young player like Shah, Troughton or Bell will do, maybe even Strauss. Zimbabwe will be an almost pressure free debut to any young bowler or batsman, why not use it?

Consistant Runs - Over 1000 runs in the domestic game for the past two seasons running, not the same level but you don't score that amount of runs just through luck, you have to have some ablity behind you.

Younger Players - R.Key is only 23/24 years of age as it is and he has already hit nearly 5500 runs @ 33.40 (13 100's and 26 50's) with a highest score of 174* which I blieve came VS Australia 'A' in the recent series..... who, well could rival most full Test sides.

Zimbabwe will be an almost pressure free debut to any young bowler or batsman, why not use it?

I agree but why at the price of another promising young player who hasn't done anything wrong, why not rest the experince players (who all complain of to much cricket) and bring in a few younger players, if they do well that's great for English cricket.... if they fail the guys are there to return to play South Africa.

 

[Langeveldt]

Maybe he meant <Hic!> and that he had been drinking.

Well people like Butcher, Ramprakash, even Hussain have similar averages and have had very lean periods, but Hick has been in and out of the side so often that Im not really surprised he hasnt set the world on fire...

If thorpe was around, i would have him instead. I think Bell and Troughton could do with another season before throwing them in at the deep end, and there are no other batsmen as capable as Hick around..

 

[Rik]

Consistant Runs - Over 1000 runs in the domestic game for the past two seasons running, not the same level but you don't score that amount of runs just through luck, you have to have some ablity behind you.

Younger Players - R.Key is only 23/24 years of age as it is and he has already hit nearly 5500 runs @ 33.40 (13 100's and 26 50's) with a highest score of 174* which I blieve came VS Australia 'A' in the recent series..... who, well could rival most full Test sides.

Zimbabwe will be an almost pressure free debut to any young bowler or batsman, why not use it?

I agree but why at the price of another promising young player who hasn't done anything wrong, why not rest the experince players (who all complain of to much cricket) and bring in a few younger players, if they do well that's great for English cricket.... if they fail the guys are there to return to play South Africa. [/B]

For consistant runs read "in Tests" because he only averages 20.18 in 6 Tests. Now ok some were against Australia, but 2 were against India. He really needs to get out of the typical English youngster mode of playing some gritty innings but never going on from there.

Resting some experianced players would be an option, but not too many. Maybe Key in for Butcher, and Bell/Shah/Troughton/Strauss in for Crawley depending on who's in the best form and then Chris Read in for Stewie. Bring Anderson in too, and play Hoggard who needs the confidence boost and who is also a fine bowler in English conditions.

 

[Rich2001]

Well people like Butcher, Ramprakash, even Hussain have similar averages and have had very lean periods

They might have, but unlike Hick they have pulled through. Butcher had some silly avg high 50's since returing to the side, not sure how much that dropped in Australia, but he had a couple of knocks so I doubt much. Ramprakash is a poor example as he has recived the same treatment as Hick he was dropped after time and time again failing. And as for Nasser the guy had well a shocking period but in his own words he is in some of the best form his been in ages and hitting the middle well and deserves his place in the side.

Why take up a place in the side with a guy soon to retire, when you have the prefect oppotunity to blood a new player who can build a foundation to stick around and be a key player for the next 10 or so years.

 

[Rik]

Well people like Butcher, Ramprakash, even Hussain have similar averages and have had very lean periods, but Hick has been in and out of the side so often that Im not really surprised he hasnt set the world on fire...

If thorpe was around, i would have him instead. I think Bell and Troughton could do with another season before throwing them in at the deep end, and there are no other batsmen as capable as Hick around..

From what I've heard, Hick is retiring at the end of the season, so calling him up wouldn't be the best idea.

 

[Rik]

and be a key player for the next 10 or so years.

No pun intended eh?

 

[Rich2001]

For consistant runs read "in Tests" because he only averages 20.18 in 6 Tests. Now ok some were against Australia, but 2 were against India. He really needs to get out of the typical English youngster mode of playing some gritty innings but never going on from there.

And how excatly is he ment to do this if you kick him out of the side?

In 6 Tests it's impossible to read a consistant player or not, remember the luck of the draw, I re-call a doggy call vs India when he was on 33 and in complete control... Iam not making excuses, as Key no doubt had some luck along the road, all iam saying is lets not be the England selectors and after a few games cast the guy into the wilderness never to be seen again... at least let him start the summer, that way Key has a chance to shine and by the time a few tests are up your have a good indication of who's doing the business in the domestic side of things.

But hey if you want Key to stay at Kent I don't have a problem with that (he might ) just means we will walk the title even easier & if we sign the overseas player we were looking at as a option then the batting just gets better (I think)

 

[Rich2001]

No pun intended eh?

LOL didn't even notice that.

 

[Rik]

And how excatly is he ment to do this if you kick him out of the side?

In 6 Tests it's impossible to read a consistant player or not, remember the luck of the draw, I re-call a doggy call vs India when he was on 33 and in complete control... Iam not making excuses, as Key no doubt had some luck along the road, all iam saying is lets not be the England selectors and after a few games cast the guy into the wilderness never to be seen again... at least let him start the summer, that way Key has a chance to shine and by the time a few tests are up your have a good indication of who's doing the business in the domestic side of things.

But hey if you want Key to stay at Kent I don't have a problem with that (he might ) just means we will walk the title even easier & if we sign the overseas player we were looking at as a option then the batting just gets better (I think)

6 Tests may not be a huge number, but averaging 20 is still poor.

 

[Langeveldt]

From what I've heard, Hick is retiring at the end of the season, so calling him up wouldn't be the best idea.

Oh what a pity, still I suppose he is getting on a bit and the motivation must be long gone

 

[Neil Pickup]

6 Tests may not be a huge number, but averaging 20 is still poor.

Key = 6 Tests, 11 Innings, 222 Runs @ 20.18
Atapattu = 3 Tests, 6 Innings, 1 Run @ 0.17
Atapattu = 6 Tests, 12 Innings, 91 Runs @ 7.58, never past 25.

In his 18th innings (10th Test), he hit 108, and in his 22nd innings (13th Test), he hit 223.

He now averages 38.01.

Statistics for such a short period tell little, it's looking at the player and his performances that count.

 

[Rik]

Key = 6 Tests, 11 Innings, 222 Runs @ 20.18
Atapattu = 3 Tests, 6 Innings, 1 Run @ 0.17
Atapattu = 6 Tests, 12 Innings, 91 Runs @ 7.58, never past 25.

In his 18th innings (10th Test), he hit 108, and in his 22nd innings (13th Test), he hit 223.

He now averages 38.01.

Statistics for such a short period tell little, it's looking at the player and his performances that count.

I'm going on what I've seen of him as well and I'm not that impressed, not only has he not scored many runs, he's also scored them at a painfully slow rate.

I'm going to ask you truithfully now Neil, can you really see him matching Attapattu?

 

[Langeveldt]

Key = 6 Tests, 11 Innings, 222 Runs @ 20.18
Atapattu = 3 Tests, 6 Innings, 1 Run @ 0.17
Atapattu = 6 Tests, 12 Innings, 91 Runs @ 7.58, never past 25.

In his 18th innings (10th Test), he hit 108, and in his 22nd innings (13th Test), he hit 223.

He now averages 38.01.

Statistics for such a short period tell little, it's looking at the player and his performances that count.

Good Point, reminds me of Jacques Kallis who had a terrible start, didnt Steve Waugh start really badly too?

 

[Rik]

Some very fine players have had poor starts but these players also had good records in domestic cricket behind them, Key's is still average despite his good last 2 years. It's not his average I'm really critical of, it's more the way he scores them which puts me to sleep.

 

[Rich2001]

Some very fine players have had poor starts but these players also had good records in domestic cricket behind them, Key's is still average despite his good last 2 years. It's not his average I'm really critical of, it's more the way he scores them which puts me to sleep.

A SR of 64.11 isn't to bad, i've seen worse!

And Rob Key in the last few years has been a major transfermation in his game, and is now one of the more attacking players in the game (not in the flintoff and co league)

And quite frankly I can understand him wantting to play safer and protect his wicket in his first few games, wouldn't want to throw your wicket away in the heat of the moment as it could be your last. And like I said he batted to the game situation in the game in South Australia, he batted for like 30 mins for just 3 runs... but 3 quick wickets had just fell and he was protecting Vaughan going into lunch. At the WCCA he was the the only batsman to hang around and was forced to run the inngs on his own and bat as long as possible with the tail.

The time when he was most feulent was in his first game, where he hit 33 at around a run a ball, but went to a cut/pull and got a inside edge about a foot outside off, come back hit his back leg and rolled onto the stumps.

AND his SR can't be that bad as don't forget he was called into the ODI side for the VB Series, and made the 30 man sqaud to go to the World Cup.

 

[Rik]

A SR of 64.11 isn't to bad, i've seen worse!

I thought his strike rate was 36...in Tests at least...

By the way he scores them read his style, I'm not convinced really, but anywho at least he has his sorted...unlike me!