The better batsman the bettter #3 Ponting vs Dravid

[aussie]

5 balls he faced from Harbhajan.
3 balls he faced from Kumble (who dismissed him)

How does that small sample show anything?!

the way he attempted to play them unlike past encounters in 2001 & 98, only if saw it you would understand where i'm coming from..

 

[aussie]

at least Dravid has had 1 successful series against mcgrath and warne together, ponting has had none in India.

uh when?

 

[aussie]

however if you gave a player sufficient practice at the WACA, assuming no seam movement, most players would have no problems getting used to the pace and bounce that have historically troubled visiting players.

not if they are facing outstanding fast bowling....
lets take Langer & Martyn for example, they are perth players for a very long time & would be able to adjust to that pitch better than any player in the world, but in their first series when they faced the WI pace bowling in 92 they had problems adjusting to the pace & bounce, so this point isn't that agreeable FOR ME

 

[aussie]

and once again, 3 tests(1 series) as opposed to 8 is not comparable.

if you look at the fact that he also failed in many innings when McGrath/Warne have bowled againts him in India also in home conditions it think its a fair argument.

 

[tooextracool]

if you look at the fact that he also failed in many innings when McGrath/Warne have bowled againts him in India also in home conditions it think its a fair argument.

nope his overall average against both warne and mcgrath is 33, which while being ordinary is nowhere near shocking. and it only gets higher when he plays 1 of them. in pontings case having either harbhajan or kumble has been more than enough in india.

 

[tooextracool]

not if they are facing outstanding fast bowling....
lets take Langer & Martyn for example, they are perth players for a very long time & would be able to adjust to that pitch better than any player in the world, but in their first series when they faced the WI pace bowling in 92 they had problems adjusting to the pace & bounce, so this point isn't that agreeable FOR ME

i wouldnt be surprised if that WACA wicket offered seam movement as well as bounce

 

[tooextracool]

uh when?

in india 2001.

 

[tooextracool]

the way he attempted to play them unlike past encounters in 2001 & 98, only if saw it you would understand where i'm coming from..

so you deduced all of that in 8 balls before he got out to the same bowlers who tormented him in the past?

 

[tooextracool]

No, it's not all that helpful, but it's not completely useless.

yes which is why i said 'almost always useless'. a fast bouncy WACA wicket is definetly more useful than most of the other garbage wickets we've seen in Australia over the last 4 years. however even a fast bouncy wicket isnt likely to cause any real problems to players once they get used to the conditions.

Aussie pitches do occasionally seam around (you admitted it yourself in a later post) and they always bounce. I'd say it's definately not the worst place in the World to bowl seam, and I'd rather bowl seam in Australia than India.

seam perhaps, but id still think that most bowlers dread bowling seam in Australia anyways. when it comes to swing, particularly reverse, i think id rather bowl in the subcontinent.

 

[Tom Halsey]

seam perhaps, but id still think that most bowlers dread bowling seam in Australia anyways. when it comes to swing, particularly reverse, i think id rather bowl in the subcontinent.

Why do Australia always produce seamers then? McGrath, Lillee, et cetera et cetera.

Moreover, why do these bowlers always have great records? Because Australia is not the worst place in the World to bowl seam. Not the best, granted, but not the worst. I'd say it's pretty average.

 

[Tom Halsey]

the way he attempted to play them unlike past encounters in 2001 & 98, only if saw it you would understand where i'm coming from..

What garbage, you can't judge anything in 8 balls.

 

[aussie]

What garbage, you can't judge anything in 8 balls.

why not?, you had to see him to understand, plus if you dont want to accept that use SRI 2004 where he faced Murali in his on backyard on equally difficult conditions as India and managed to average 33.

 

[Tom Halsey]

why not?, you had to see him to understand, plus if you dont want to accept that use SRI 2004 where he faced Murali in his on backyard on equally difficult conditions as India and managed to average 33.

'Manageing' to average 33 is hardly an achievement, hard conditions or not.

Looking good for 8 balls (correction 7 balls, as the 8th got him out) means nothing.

 

[Sanz]

Interestingly, all of those have played a maximum of 3 Tests in India (except Afridi, who has bowled about 100 overs in 5 games)

What difference it makes, Warne has consistently failed in India, whereas there have been a no. of spinners who have succeeded in India. I dont care how many series they have played in. Afridi played 2 series and has an avg. of 25. Warne played 3 series and has an avg. of 43.

Saqlain was fantastic in the only series he played, So were Boje, Price etc. Even Giles had an avg. of 33 which is much better than Warnie's over all avg. in India. So so many ordinary spinners(except saqlain) averaging between 20 -33 cant be a co-incidence and it does prove that Warnie has been a massive failure in India with series avg.s like 54, 50 and 30.

 

[aussie]

'Manageing' to average 33 is hardly an achievement, hard conditions or not.

Looking good for 8 balls (correction 7 balls, as the 8th got him out) means nothing.

i'm not arguing whether its an achievement, my point is that he has improved in his ability to play spin on turner since 2001, that series is a perfect example even if his average isn't fantastic, if you saw him bat in that series you would see where i'm coming from.

 

[tooextracool]

Why do Australia always produce seamers then? McGrath, Lillee, et cetera et cetera.

Moreover, why do these bowlers always have great records? Because Australia is not the worst place in the World to bowl seam. Not the best, granted, but not the worst. I'd say it's pretty average.

lillee and mcgrath are 2 bowlers that came from Australia in the past. i dont deny that Australia used to have plenty of assistance in their pitches before. it is rather ironic though that almost every fast bowler who has made his debut after 2000 from Australia (bracken, brad williams, stuart clark, shaun tait etc) has been rather pathetic. although i wouldnt know much about the domestic scene, i have often been told that their domestic wickets tend to offer a lot more for their bowlers than the international wickets do, at least off late.

 

[tooextracool]

What difference it makes, Warne has consistently failed in India, whereas there have been a no. of spinners who have succeeded in India. I dont care how many series they have played in. Afridi played 2 series and has an avg. of 25. Warne played 3 series and has an avg. of 43.

Saqlain was fantastic in the only series he played, So were Boje, Price etc. Even Giles had an avg. of 33 which is much better than Warnie's over all avg. in India. So so many ordinary spinners(except saqlain) averaging between 20 -33 cant be a co-incidence and it does prove that Warnie has been a massive failure in India with series avg.s like 54, 50 and 30.

this is quite ludcrous, giles and boje played a whole 2 test matches in India and struggled to cause any problems in at least one of those games. to compare someone based on 2 tests with someone from 3 series, is likely comparing hussey to bradman. as for the other argument, its inane to ignore the basic fact that almost every spin bowler has failed in india, average 33 or not.
afridi has been quite fortuitous in his performances in India thus far, and i have no doubt that were he to return next time, and bowl more than a part timer, he would struggle to cause any sort of problems.

 

[Sanz]

'Manageing' to average 33 is hardly an achievement, hard conditions or not.

Looking good for 8 balls (correction 7 balls, as the 8th got him out) means nothing.

33 ?? What are you talking about ? Ponting averages 50 in SL against Murali, Dravid 39.

Dravid faced Saqlain, afridi in 1998-99 in India averaged 27.

 

[Sanz]

this is quite ludcrous, giles and boje played a whole 2 test matches in India and struggled to cause any problems in at least one of those games. to compare someone based on 2 tests with someone from 3 series, is likely comparing hussey to bradman. as for the other argument, its inane to ignore the basic fact that almost every spin bowler has failed in india, average 33 or not.
afridi has been quite fortuitous in his performances in India thus far, and i have no doubt that were he to return next time, and bowl more than a part timer, he would struggle to cause any sort of problems.

Blah Blah Blah....
If a spinner has succeeded in India in more than one series, it is because he has been lucky. If he has succeeded in the only series he has failed, it is only because he has played in only one series and you are 100 % sure that he is going to fail in the next series. So much for your argument.

Who is comparing Warne to Price, Saqlain, giles etc. I brought their stats only to illustrate that there have spinners who have succedded in India. No one is saying that Hussey is better than Bradman, but to conclude that Hussey has failed despite making 500 runs (because he played only in 2 tests) is utterly foolish.

Are you saying that Ray Price, Ashley Giles, Saqlain Mushtaq, Afridi etc have failed in INDIA ? Let's hear it from you.

 

[Tom Halsey]

33 ?? What are you talking about

I got the stats from one series, check the post I quoted from Aussie, I didn't check the stats, but I doubt he'd understate Ponting's average if he's pro-Ponting.