The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Red]

- G. Greenidge
- L. Hutton
- D. Bradman
- B. Lara
- V. Richards
- G. Sobers
- A. Gilchrist
- I. Khan
- W. Akram
- S. Warne
- D. Lillee

 

[kyear2]

Nah, kyear,a spinner like Tayfield provides a whole new dimension to the attack that neither Holding, nor Garner can match.

But I think you are wrong about having Mushtaq Mohammad in the side. If you want a spinner-allrounder, then Vinoo Mankad is a much better choice at the expense of Bedi or Kumble. Both Mushtaq and Vinoo bowled in 70 innings (57 tests for Mushtaq, and 44 tests for Vinoo), and Mushtaq fetched only 79 wickets compared to Vinoo's 162 wickets. Mushtaq was a better batsman, but I think Vinoo will add more to the side (he scored 2109 runs, averages 31.47 with 5 centuries, a highest of 231).

But batting at 6 and doubling as the 5th bowler, I belive that your batting is your primary resposibility and thats why I went for the better batsman, but I can see your perspective as well.

 

[Pothas]

If you are determined to pick an allrounder at 6 then I can see why you went with him, as I said though, I would personally just play the extra batsman.

 

[kyear2]

Especially since Murali could hold down an end all day. Will give it some thought. Three good options regardless, Dravid, Mankad and Mushtaq.

 

[Prince EWS]

I think Mushtaq is a very under-rated player and I certainly don't think he looks out of place in that eleven, but I think I'd go for a completely different balance. I'd give Sanga the gloves. Sangakkara was/is actually an excellent wicket keeper; the reason he doesn't keep is the fact that he's a much better batsman when he focuses on that alone. The overall batting of the Sri Lankan Test side is improved by replacing the worst batsman with another wicket keeper, pushing Sanga up the order and taking the gloves off him. Here, however, it's highly debatable whether he's actually better than Dravid as a batsman in the first place, so you don't lose anything in the batting by giving him the gloves; if fact the batting improves as he's a far better batsman even with the gloves than Engineer, and likely as good as wicket keeper (I say likely as I never actually saw Engineer keep, but I'm big fan of Sanga as a gloveman).

Having the keeper at six opens up a new balance option; Imran can bat seven, Kapil can bat eight and another spinner (take your pick from any of the great Indian spinners) can come in for Waqar.

1 Gavaskar
2 Hanif/Merchant
3 Dravid
4 Tendulkar
5 Miandad
6 Sangakkara
7 Imran
8 Kapil
9 Wasim
10 Kumble/your choice of spinner
11 Murali

 

[smash84]

isn't Waqar a much better option than any of the other random spinners that you want to insert at 10?

 

[kyear2]

He is, and also better than Dev.

 

[Maximas]

I question all this talk of spin bowling all-rounders when Sir Ravi Jadeja gets no mention!!

 

[kyear2]

I think Mushtaq is a very under-rated player and I certainly don't think he looks out of place in that eleven, but I think I'd go for a completely different balance. I'd give Sanga the gloves. Sangakkara was/is actually an excellent wicket keeper; the reason he doesn't keep is the fact that he's a much better batsman when he focuses on that alone. The overall batting of the Sri Lankan Test side is improved by replacing the worst batsman with another wicket keeper, pushing Sanga up the order and taking the gloves off him. Here, however, it's highly debatable whether he's actually better than Dravid as a batsman in the first place, so you don't lose anything in the batting by giving him the gloves; if fact the batting improves as he's a far better batsman even with the gloves than Engineer, and likely as good as wicket keeper (I say likely as I never actually saw Engineer keep, but I'm big fan of Sanga as a gloveman).

Having the keeper at six opens up a new balance option; Imran can bat seven, Kapil can bat eight and another spinner (take your pick from any of the great Indian spinners) can come in for Waqar.

1 Gavaskar
2 Hanif/Merchant
3 Dravid
4 Tendulkar
5 Miandad
6 Sangakkara
7 Imran
8 Kapil
9 Wasim
10 Kumble/your choice of spinner
11 Murali

Really don't see how what Kapil brings to a team with his batting is worth what you loose with his bowling compared to Waqar. Additionally Wasim is good enough to bat at 8. Personally I would probably go with Chandra as the second spinner and Merchand over Hanif.

 

[Red]

I'd keep Kapil in the team. Adds a lot more than what people give him credit for. True match winner.

I'd open with Engineer tbh, balances the side well.

Gavaskar
Engineer *
Dravid
Tendulkar
Sangakkara
Miandad
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan +
Wasim
Waqar
Murali

Team bats to 9. And that bowling attack, hell yeh.

 

[Mike5181]

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Virender Sehwag
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Javed Miandad
6. Kumar Sangakkara+
7. Imran Khan (c)
8. Wasim Akram
9. Anil Kumble
10. Waqar Younis
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

Throw Dev in at 8 for Kumble depending on conditions.

 

[centurymaker]

I'd keep Kapil in the team. Adds a lot more than what people give him credit for. True match winner.

I'd open with Engineer tbh, balances the side well.

Gavaskar
Engineer *
Dravid
Tendulkar
Sangakkara
Miandad
Kapil Dev
Imran Khan +
Wasim
Waqar
Murali

Team bats to 9. And that bowling attack, hell yeh.

Thats some team!

 

[Flem274*]

Did Engineer do much opening?

1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Virender Sehwag
3. Rahul Dravid
4. Sachin Tendulkar
5. Javed Miandad
6. Kumar Sangakkara+
7. Imran Khan (c)
8. Wasim Akram
9. Anil Kumble
10. Waqar Younis
11. Muttiah Muralitharan

Throw Dev in at 8 for Kumble depending on conditions.

Yep that would be my team barring possibly Sehwag. Could go for Hanif Mohammad instead. Usually I'm a big fan of stacking ATG sides with allrounders but Wasim's bowling + batting > than Kapil's overall package when looking for a number eight. For overseas matches though Kapil would play ahead of Kumble.

 

[Flem274*]

What are peoples thoughts on nations best ever eleven to take the field together? Would Indians agree that their side that got to number one was their best, or is there another side they fielded that they believe was better and was just unfortunate to play when other teams were stronger?

Also an interesting one for the recent South Africa and England number ones. Their best to take the field at one time?

I'm not sure about England but despite the lack of Kapil and Srinath I'd take the Indian one even with Ishant as a passenger as their best and I think the South African one as well, just, since the banned era sides didn't see much playing time.

 

[Red]

Did Engineer do much opening?
.

Opened in the majority of his test innings, averaged over 30.

Fred reckons he's the second best keeper he ever saw.

 

[Red]

What are peoples thoughts on nations best ever eleven to take the field together? Would Indians agree that their side that got to number one was their best, or is there another side they fielded that they believe was better and was just unfortunate to play when other teams were stronger?

Also an interesting one for the recent South Africa and England number ones. Their best to take the field at one time?

I'm not sure about England but despite the lack of Kapil and Srinath I'd take the Indian one even with Ishant as a passenger as their best and I think the South African one as well, just, since the banned era sides didn't see much playing time.

Apart from the recent obvious one (Hayden, Langer, Ponting, McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist etc) from an Australian perspective, I'd say these are our greatest teams...



1946
Barnes
Morris
Bradman*
Hassett
Miller
McCool
Johnson
Tallon+
Lindwall
Tribe
Toshack

1921
Bardsley
Collins
Macartney
Pellew
Taylor
Armstrong *
Gregory
Hendry
Carter +
McDonald
Mailey

 

[watson]

I'd like to see that 1946 battle the 1971 England side. Played at the SCG, it would be some Test match. Interestingly, both of these great teams didn't mind increasing their bowling strength by playing bowling-allrounders (mediocre batsman) at No.6;

AUSTRALIA
01. Barnes
02. Morris
03. Bradman*
04. Hassett
05. Miller
06. McCool
07. Johnson
08. Tallon+
09. Lindwall
10. Tribe
11. Toshack

ENGLAND
01. Boycott
02. Edrich
03. Fletcher
04. D'Oliveria
05. Hampshire
06. Illingworth*
07. Knott+
08. Snow
09. P. Lever
10. Underwood
11. Willis

 

[watson]

And I'd just about mortgage my house to see the 1974 Aussie side play the 1928 England side;

AUSTRALIA
01. Redpath
02. McCosker
03. I. Chappell
04. G. Chappell
05. R. Edwards
06. Walters
07. Marsh
08. Walker
09. Lillee
10. Mallett
11. Thomson

ENGLAND
01. Hobbs
02. Sutcliffe
03. Hammond
04. Jardine
05. Hendren
06. Chapman
07. Larwood
08. Geary
09. Tate
10. Duckworth
11. White

 

[watson]

And here is a charming short doco about Percy Fender's film of the 1928-29 tour of Australia. Most of it is about Archie Jackson though;

Old Cricket Film: 1928-29 - YouTube

 

[harsh.ag]

I think a better balance of batting and bowling is needed like this SC XI:

Gavaskar | Sehwag | Dravid | Tendulkar | Miandad | Sanga (w)| Mankad | Imran | Wasim | Waqar | Murali

Mankad and Imran at 7 and 8 really spruce up the batting. Engineer the big miss. This team is extremely similar in composition to my India XI:

Gavaskar | Sehwag | Dravid | Tendulkar | Hazare | Engineer (w) | Mankad | Kapil | Srinath | Prasanna | Amar Singh |