The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Magrat Garlick]

Why cook over haydos?

His record is much more rounded and his home conditions were generally tougher against the new ball, which is the main reason you pick specialist openers

 

[h_hurricane]

Pollock even post 2000 is a better pick than Anderson.
Took 260 wickets @ 24.76 since the turn of the century. Hasn't struggled anywhere except Australia (it is a hole, but not as big as some of Anderson's).

Also isn't in the same planet as batting ability is concerned.

Pollock
Steyn
Murali
Mcgrath

should be a great lower order.

 

[Pratters]

Its not a great argument for Mr2 if one of the very few posters who agrees with him is Pratters, is it?

But kidding aside,

Heh

 

[bagapath]

Found this on my phone from a few months ago.

1900-1945
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Bradman*
Hammond
Headley
Gregory
Oldfield+
Larwood
Grimmett
O’Reilly
Barnes

May want to bring in Ames as keeper but the team is gun otherwise

1946-1999
Hutton
Gavaskar
Barrington
Tendulkar
Chappell*
Sobers
Knott+
Imran
Hadlee
Marshall
Laker

Can do many variations depending on the day of the week... today I will go...

Hutton *
Gavaskar
Lara
Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Sobers
Knott +
Hadlee
Marshall
Warne
Lillee

2000-
Smith*
Hayden
Sangakkara
Smith
Lara
Kallis
Gilchrist+
Steyn
Muralitharan
Anderson
McGrath

Sehwag
Hayden
Sangakara *
Kallis
Smith
Stokes
Gilchrist+
S Pollock
Steyn
Muralitharan
McGrath

 

[Coronis]

Yeah I thought about having Pollock or Philander over Anderson but kinda wanted to reward his longevity. Tendulkar was at his best in the 90’s and I didn’t want to have players in 2 XI’s, and Lara I thought would be better suited than the other options for the 21st century. Smith was a lock so I wanted either Hayden or Sehwag to compliment his slower style, I’d generally take both over Cook anyway. Warne was a tough cut, I thought about him in the pre 2000 team but without his longevity, Laker’s record really stood out. Completely spaced on Ames, he’d be a good pick to shore up the batting for the pre war side.

 

[Pratters]

Don't think the last 3 years or so of Tendulkar or Kapil counts against them. It affects the stats but when we judge them as players, we have to look at those years as playing for records when they are past their best. If Tendulkar played age 40-42 and has a worse average in those years, would it mean his earlier years was bad ? Not really.

Also, you can't really blame players for playing past their expiry dates as sportsmen have limited careers.

 

[bagapath]

and true sportsmen play the sport because they enjoy competing, and winning. they don't care much about the numbers. ponting and gilchrist are great examples of this. Sachin and Kapil too went on and on because they could not think of anything in life other than playing cricket. truly blessed guys all these are.

 

[h_hurricane]

Kapil's decline is a bit exaggerated imo. The Kapil that I saw in his last 4-5 years hit 4 sixes to avoid a follow on in England, followed up with a great hundred in the next match or so, then a hattrick in the asia cup final, then the epic 25 wickets series down under and finally the ATG hundred in Port Elizabeth when the next highest score was 17. He was the highest run scorer in that series along with Sachin. Also had one last great performance in hero cup final.

He seemed to take for ever to reach 432 wickets because he hardly ever bowled on those tracks where Kumble, Raju and Chauhan were doing all the spoils. Coincidently, this is what Indian opening bowlers did before he debuted.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hasn't struggled anywhere except Australia (it is a hole)

Some parts are, for sure. But there are plenty of nice places too.

 

[harsh.ag]

England ATXI
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton (c)

Ken Barrington
Wally Hammond
Denis Compton

Ian Botham
Ben Stokes
Andrew Flintoff

Alan Knott (wk)

Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

12th Man: Paul Collingwood
_________________________________________________________________________________________
A 6-8 of talismans. To snatch a win from right under every other team's nose.

 

[Coronis]

England ATXI
Jack Hobbs
Len Hutton (c)

Ken Barrington
Wally Hammond
Denis Compton

Ian Botham
Ben Stokes
Andrew Flintoff

Alan Knott (wk)

Fred Trueman
Sydney Barnes

12th Man: Paul Collingwood
_________________________________________________________________________________________
A 6-8 of talismans. To snatch a win from right under every other team's nose.

Love it (where is my Herb?!), could never feel sure of a win with those 3 in the side.

 

[Engle]

01. J. Hobbs
02. H. Sutcliffe
03. K. Barrington
04. W. Hammond (vc)
05. D. Jardine (c)
06. I. Botham
07. A. Knott (wk)
08. H. Verity
09. F. Trueman
10. F. Tyson
11. S. Barnes

12. M. Brearley

- Even tho Hutton may be argued as a sightly better opener than Sutcliffe, we're picking partnerships and Hobbs/Sutcliffe is tried and true
- Enland's only hope of beating AT Aus XI lies in the hands of Jardine
- Specialist bowlers preferred over AR bowlers. We need to give Jardine the tools to work with
- M.Brearley as strategic consultant

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

01. J. Hobbs
02. H. Sutcliffe
03. L. Hutton
04. W.G. Grace
05. K Barrington
06. W. Hammond
07. I. Botham
08. A. Knott (wk)
09. F. Trueman
10. J Laker
11. S. Barnes

The England ATXI suffers for bowling firepower compared to several other nations', but good luck getting through that batting lineup.

 

[bagapath]

all time englad XI

hobbs
hutton *
hammond (6)
compton
pietersen
botham (3)
stokes (5)
knott +
trueman (1)
laker (4)
barnes (2)

eng XI from the last 50 years

boycott
gooch *
joe root
gower
pietersen
botham (3)
stokes (5)
knott +
willis (1)
underwood (4)
anderson (2)

 

[ataraxia]

My England XI is something along the lines of:

1) JB Hobbs /
2) H Sutcliffe /
3) L Hutton /
4) WR Hammond / o
5) WG Grace / o
6) Ranjitsinhji /
7) APE Knott + /
8) W Rhodes o /
9) GA Lohmann o /
10) FS Trueman o
11) SF Barnes o

 

[Red]

Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
May
Compton
Woolley
Knott +
Barnes
Bedser
Trueman
Laker

 

[stephen]

01. J. Hobbs
02. H. Sutcliffe
03. L. Hutton
04. W.G. Grace
05. K Barrington
06. W. Hammond
07. I. Botham
08. A. Knott (wk)
09. F. Trueman
10. J Laker
11. S. Barnes

The England ATXI suffers for bowling firepower compared to several other nations', but good luck getting through that batting lineup.

This is the side I'd take in a hypothetical matchup against an Australian ATXI.

 

[Line and Length]

I'm re-visiting Allan Border's 2015 book "Cricket as I see it". In the Chapter entitled "The greats" he lists 3 teams comprising players he played Test cricket with or against.

The first is his World XI:

Sunil Gavaskar
Gordon Greenidge
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
Malcolm Marshall
Wasim Akram
Joel Garner
Abdul Qadir
Curtly Ambrose (12th man)

Perhaps the more interesting selections are Botham ahead of Imran Hhan, Richard Hadlee and Kapil Dev. His reasoning is that Botham was best suited to bat at #6. Also Garner over Ambrose might raise a few eyebrows. In selecting Qadir as his spinner, he notes that he never played a Test against Muralitharan.

He then names his Australian XI

Matthew Hayden
Mark Taylor
David Boon
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh
Mark Waugh
Ian Healy
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath
Jeff Thompson
Terry Alderman (12th man)

Nothing too controversial there.

His final side comprises the Test team-mates he most enjoyed playing with.

My Fun XI

Geoff Marsh
David Boon
Greg Ritchie
Dean Jones
Doug Walters
Rod Marsh
Tim May
Merv Hughes
Jeff Thomson
Carl Rackermann
Jim Higgs
Rodney Hogg (12th man)

Rather a long tail, but perhaps AB found bowlers more fun.

 

[Red]

The "fielding is more important in a 50 over contest than any other format" XI

Gilchrist
Jayasuriya
Richards
Ponting
MWaugh
Symonds
Rhodes
Flintoff
Wasim
Warne
Garner

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I'd go

Gilchrist
Gibbs
Richards
Ponting
ABDV
Stokes
Harris
Harper
B Lee
Boult
Murali

Pretty amazing fielding side.