The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[kyear2]

I personally believe that Gilchrist was a very good keeper and what ever (little) deficientcies he had was more than made up by his batting.

 

[Red]

Yeah perhaps not too much praise, but whenever anyone wants to put the sell on Gilchrist, its often due to his keeping against Warne and I was merely suggesting that Warne wasn't exactly the hardest spinner to have kept against in the history of Test Cricket. I know keeping to a leggie isn't easy, but you've agreed with my small point, MacGill would have been tougher.

Agree, absolutely. I'd imagine MacGill to be very tough to keep to. Really ripped his leggie, and wasn't as accurate as Warne was.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, I was just thinking that with Botham at no.6 and a tail to follow, a keeper with a 40+ average would be very handy for the England XI.

Ames.

 

[Cabinet96]

Prior is superb standing back. Has only dropped a couple standing back in the last couple of years and they were both down the leg side. His keeping to Swann isn't as good, and he occasionally misses stumping chances. But overall I'd say he's one of the best in the world at the moment.

 

[Jager]

Ranking is difficult, and kinda pointless (but kinda fun), but FWIW, here's how I rank keepers...

-Godfrey Evans
-Allan Knott
-Bert Oldfield
-Syed Kirmani
-Ian Healy
-Don Tallon

The first four are about equal, then Healy and Tallon slightly below.

What about Bob Taylor? Many say he was slightly above Knott as a pure gloveman.

 

[Red]

What about Bob Taylor? Many say he was slightly above Knott as a pure gloveman.

Really don't know much about him (apart from he was a contemporary of Knott), and haven't seen much footage. If he's as good, or better, than Knotty, he's right up there. I'd take Knott as keeper in my ATG test team every day of the week.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

A-tribute-to-Players-who-took-part-in-Combat XI

1. Len Hutton
2. Herbert Sutcliffe
3. Bruce Mitchell
4. Maurice Leyland
5. Charles Macartney
6. Keith Miller
7. Bill Edrich
8. Hedley Verity
9. Herbert Strudwick+
10. Ken Farnes
11. Bill Bowes

 

[Eds]

Ames.

Yes.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yes.

I think you mean "Yes?"

 

[watson]

Yes.

Ames scored plenty of runs against NZ, SA, and the WIs, but averaged only 29.00 (1 century) against Australia. A significant drop from his overall average.

Alan Knott averaged 32.98 (2 centuries) against Australia and 29.23 (1 century) against the West Indies. Probably the best 2 countries of his era.

So I don't think that that Ames is going the rescue the tail of the ATG England team any better than Knott. Plus Knott is very likely to be the better wicket-keeper.

Knott over Ames.

 

[Red]

Feel like it's time for some discussion (I'm bored as). I'm on a bit of a Lara fan tangent atm, so here is my current ATG team


- Jack Hobbs
- Bill Lawry
- Don Bradman
- Brian Lara
- Viv Richards
- Garry Sobers
- Imran Khan *
- Shane Warne
- Godfrey Evans +
- Malcolm Marshall
- Dennis Lillee

 

[kyear2]

Apparently Bradman used to say that his ideal ATG should have a L/R hand opening combination, one LH in the middle order, a seam bolwing All Rounder, a wicket keeper who could bat, a fast bolwer to bowl with the wind, a medium fast to bowl into it and a off and a leg (or LH) spinner. with that in mind.

Jack Hobbs
Arthur Morris
Don Bradman
Brian Lara
Viv Richards
Garry Sobers
Adam Gilchrist
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Muttiah Muralitharan
Glenn Mcgrath

 

[Red]

Feel like it's time for some discussion (I'm bored as). I'm on a bit of a Lara fan tangent atm, so here is my current ATG team


- Jack Hobbs
- Bill Lawry
- Don Bradman
- Brian Lara
- Viv Richards
- Garry Sobers
- Imran Khan *
- Shane Warne
- Godfrey Evans +
- Malcolm Marshall
- Dennis Lillee

I think with this team, the negotiable positions are Lawry, Lara, Imran and Evans. The rest are locked in.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'm probably still picking the same team I was 12-18 months ago. I don't think Lara's done enough in that time to force his way in...

 

[kyear2]

1 Jack Hobbs
2
3 Don Bradman
4 Viv Richards
5
6 Garry Sobers
7 Adam Gilchrist
8
9 Malcolm Marshall
10 Shane Warne
11

Those are my permanent locked ins.

 

[Red]

I'm probably still picking the same team I was 12-18 months ago. I don't think Lara's done enough in that time to force his way in...

Yeh fair enough. I just get in to players sometimes after reading a biography or something, hence the changes sometimes.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeh fair enough. I just get in to players sometimes after reading a biography or something, hence the changes sometimes.

Haha yeah I understood, I was just being a douche. I just find it a bit amusing that we (me included) all have little periods where we love certain players after reading more about them, and want to get them into teams like this even though they've been long retired and our overall criteria hasn't really changed. A few weeks later and they'll be gone again.

 

[watson]

Lara is different though because any cricket lover can be forgiven for going through a 'Lara phase'.

The reason that a 'Lara phase' is not unreasonable is that there is solid ground for believing that Brian Lara is the 2nd greatest/best batsman of all time. In other words it is not difficult to form a rational argument in support of Lara based on a logical assessment of all Test match innings.

However, there are some players that CWers get hung-up on ("fall in love"), and then claim that they are among the greatest when the supportive evidence is just not there in any significant quantity. That type of 'love' IS irrational and silly.

 

[Red]

Haha yeah I understood, I was just being a douche. I just find it a bit amusing that we (me included) all have little periods where we love certain players after reading more about them, and want to get them into teams like this even though they've been long retired and our overall criteria hasn't really changed. A few weeks later and they'll be gone again.

My brain says Wally Hammond bats at #4, but my heart wants Lara there!

 

[kyear2]

Lara is different though because any cricket lover can be forgiven for going through a 'Lara phase'.

The reason that a 'Lara phase' is not unreasonable is that there is solid ground for believing that Brian Lara is the 2nd greatest/best batsman of all time. In other words it is not difficult to form a rational argument in support of Lara based on a logical assessment of all Test match innings.

However, there are some players that CWers get hung-up on ("fall in love"), and then claim that they are among the greatest when the supportive evidence is just not there in any significant quantity. That type of 'love' IS irrational and silly.

Very true, very few players can be argued to be in that catergory and some try to romantacise and claim that some players were better than they truely were.
The middle order batsmen who (for me) are truely the elite would be:
Bradman, G. Chappell, Ponting, Headley, Lara, V. Richards, Sobers, Tendulkar, G. Pollock, Hammond.
If it over all top for all batsmen, Hobbs replaces Pollock.