The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[sunilz]

I'm really not sure what your point is?

Is it that he still has areas of his game to work on?

Is it that he tends to make enough runs in the first innings so his side doesn't need him to ton up in the 4th innings?

Is it that he's a first innings bully?

All of these are true btw. Still doesn't stop him from averaging nearly 65.

Yes this is why AUS couldn't beat any of IND, PAK, SL , BAN away .

My point is don't judge a 4th inning century overseas by the shot a batsman played which got him dismissed.

 

[vcs]

The lack of 4th innings centuries thing is just a curiosity. Some batsmen seem to thrive in 4th innings though (Younis Khan, Graeme Smith).

But first innings runs are generally more important in Tests. When Smith is piling them up at an average of 75 or whatever, it doesn't really matter what happens in the second innings.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah he got Kohli eventually though. One of Garrys very few poor deliveries that day, but Virat played an even worse shot to it. If he hadn't have done that maybe you might have a point

Him playing a bad shot means the ball wasn't turning? Some odd logic at work there.

 

[sunilz]

The lack of 4th innings centuries thing is just a curiosity. Some batsmen seem to thrive in 4th innings though (Younis Khan, Graeme Smith).

But first innings runs are generally more important in Tests. When Smith is piling them up at an average of 75 or whatever, it doesn't really matter what happens in the second innings.

It definitely matters . If Smith had tonned up in Bangalore or Dharmshala test in 2nd innings , AUS would have won that series.
If Kohli had tonned up in 2nd innings in 1st or 4th test in ENG , IND would have won that series.

 

[stephen]

Yes this is why AUS couldn't beat any of IND, PAK, SL , BAN away .

My point is don't judge a 4th inning century overseas by the shot a batsman played which got him dismissed.

Face it, Adelaide was a road. Honestly Pujara was more impressive last summer than Kohli 5 years ago.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It definitely matters . If Smith had tonned up in Bangalore or Dharmshala test in 2nd innings , AUS would have won that series.

Not if you take away the tons in the first innings. I really don't see your point. It wouldn't help them win the game if they made the 100s in the 2nd innings instead of the 1st innings. Or are you saying that it would help them win games if he made 2nd innings hundreds as well as 1st innings hundreds, and hence like twice as many runs and probably averaging 110? In which case no ****

Face it, Adelaide was a road. Honestly Pujara was more impressive last summer than Kohli 5 years ago.

I don't know, pitches last summer were pretty flat too. At least the first few days in Melbourne and Sydney were. Both were very impressive performances against strong bowling attacks though, regardless of the pitches.

 

[sunilz]

Face it, Adelaide was a road. Honestly Pujara was more impressive last summer than Kohli 5 years ago.

No it wasn't . And everyone agrees that Pujara was more impressive last summer. Why even bring that point ?

 

[stephen]

It definitely matters . If Smith had tonned up in Bangalore or Dharmshala test in 2nd innings , AUS would have won that series.
If Kohli had tonned up in 2nd innings in 1st or 4th test in ENG , IND would have won that series.

Or maybe if one of the other batsmen had have stood up they'd have won. But they didn't. Most of the time first innings centuries win matches, second innings centuries draw matches.

 

[sunilz]

Face it, Adelaide was a road. Honestly Pujara was more impressive last summer than Kohli 5 years ago.

No it wasn't . And everyone agrees that Pujara was more impressive last summer. Why even bring that point ?
This is like me mentioning that Damien Martyn is the best Australian batsman to tour India .

 

[sunilz]

Or maybe if one of the other batsmen had have stood up they'd have won. But they didn't. Most of the time first innings centuries win matches, second innings centuries draw matches.

Let's agree to disagree. I think in a match between 2 strong sides, 2nd inning matter as much as 1st inning.

 

[stephen]

No it wasn't . And everyone agrees that Pujara was more impressive last summer. Why even bring that point ?
This is like me mentioning that Damien Martyn is the best Australian batsman to tour India .

Adelaide in the 2014/15 series was a road, as was every other pitch India played on. Australia rolls them out for India every tour so the matches last 5 days. And we specifically don't make you play at Brisbane (shame, it'd be good to go to an India test here).

That doesn't stop Kohli's feat from being exceptional, but Australia declares twice that match to have a hope of getting a result. I'm surprised Australia won two tests that summer the pitches were that flat. I'm pretty sure that Smith and Kohli would still be batting on them if the tests were timeless.

It's always hard scoring tons overseas but let's not pretend that the 14/15 were anything other than roads, or that the cricket was the most important thing that summer.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Adelaide in the 2014/15 series was a road, as was every other pitch India played on. Australia rolls them out for India every tour so the matches last 5 days. And we specifically don't make you play at Brisbane (shame, it'd be good to go to an India test here).

That doesn't stop Kohli's feat from being exceptional, but Australia declares twice that match to have a hope of getting a result. I'm surprised Australia won two tests that summer the pitches were that flat. I'm pretty sure that Smith and Kohli would still be batting on them if the tests were timeless.

It's always hard scoring tons overseas but let's not pretend that the 14/15 were anything other than roads, or that the cricket was the most important thing that summer.

Come on, that was just one time

India played in Brisbane on most recent tours

 

[sunilz]

Adelaide in the 2014/15 series was a road, as was every other pitch India played on. Australia rolls them out for India every tour so the matches last 5 days. And we specifically don't make you play at Brisbane (shame, it'd be good to go to an India test here).

That doesn't stop Kohli's feat from being exceptional, but Australia declares twice that match to have a hope of getting a result. I'm surprised Australia won two tests that summer the pitches were that flat. I'm pretty sure that Smith and Kohli would still be batting on them if the tests were timeless.

It's always hard scoring tons overseas but let's not pretend that the 14/15 were anything other than roads, or that the cricket was the most important thing that summer.

And IND never produces flat track for AUS . Have you forgotten 2008 and 2010 tour of AUS tour to IND . Had AUS not collapsed in their 3rd/4th innings in 2008/10 , only 1 out of 6 test match would have produced result . All the pitches in these 2 test series were massive roads.

Didn't IND play Brisbane in 2014/15 ?
https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-scores/13841/aus-vs-ind-2nd-test-india-tour-of-australia-2014-15

 

[sunilz]

And IND didn't play at Gabba in 2018 because now it is ranked 5th
https://www.couriermail.com.au/spor...e/news-story/12267934b28e09d85eddc60f7d6f6f4e

 

[TheJediBrah]

And IND never produces flat track for AUS . Have you forgotten 2008 and 2010 tour of AUS tour to IND . Had AUS not collapsed in their 3rd/4th innings in 2008/10 , only 1 out of 6 test match would have produced result . All the pitches in these 2 test series were massive roads.

How is that relevant at all?

 

[stephen]

And IND never produces flat track for AUS . Have you forgotten 2008 and 2010 tour of AUS tour to IND . Had AUS not collapsed in their 3rd/4th innings in 2008/10 , only 1 out of 6 test match would have produced result . All the pitches in these 2 test series were massive roads.

Didn't IND play Brisbane in 2014/15 ?
https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-scores/13841/aus-vs-ind-2nd-test-india-tour-of-australia-2014-15

Yes, they did.

India have literally played once per decade in Brisbane. Thought it was less frequently than that. India always play Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide, the three most batting friendly tracks.

India tend to produce more turning tracks for Australia than roads.

 

[sunilz]

How is that relevant at all?

Did you forget to read his post that AUS always produces flat track for IND ? When the fact is AUS produces flat track for everyone . Let's not forget last 3 Ashes series played in AUS (2010,13,17)

 

[TheJediBrah]

Did you forget to read his post that AUS always produces flat track for IND ? When the fact is AUS produces flat track for everyone . Let's not forget last 3 Ashes series played in AUS (2010,13,17)

How is India producing flat tracks relevant?

 

[Burgey]

Do you also consider Zaheer and Ishant as World class bowlers ?
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

Not in Australia.

 

[Burgey]

And yet he managed a century in 4 th innings something Smith hasn't done in his entire career.
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

You aren’t seriously suggesting Virat Kohli is a better test match batsman than Steve Smith, are you?