The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[mr_mister]

As a top 5 bat

Smith 25 tons from 101 innings

Bradman 25 tons from 69 innings


I know this stat isn't ideal as Bradman got an impressive 4 tons from 11 innings batting 6-7, where as Smith got 1 from 17 batting 6-7

But still. Shows he's not too far behind the great man when playing in the top order

 

[stephen]

I rate Lara very highly. His double ton in 92/93 was as demoralizing as it was brilliant and his ridiculous batting in 1999 was the stuff of legends.

The thing is that Smith has had 3 "Lara '99" series in less than three years. Against India in India and then England home and away. One set of spinning decks, one set of roads and one set of seam friendly pitches. He expressly hasn't pumped up his stats against minnows (His worst averages are against Bangladesh and Sri Lanka) but saves his big scores for the big series'.

I've seen enough to rate him as being better than Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar, Richards, Border, Waugh, Younis Khan or whoever you care to mention.

How many runs do you need to be called better than the rest? Bradman only needed 6996. Smith is almost there.

Yep, he only has half the career runs of Tendulkar but that's a large enough sample size to say he's there. If nothing else he'll have the best peak since Bradman, even if he never makes another run.

 

[mr_mister]

Id say his 4 ton series against India at home is also worthy of high praise

4 series where he's hit 3+ tons now

Sachin had 0. I know that's harsh coz he mainly played 3 test series but yeah

 

[TheJediBrah]

eh the 4-ton series at home v India were the flattest, slowest pitches I've ever seen. How it didn't finish 0-0 is a mystery

 

[mr_mister]

It's still a 4 ton series though. Pretty special. There's only been twenty in the history of cricket

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't particularly like judging players in a historical context until their careers are over, or atleast close to finished when you have a full picture of what they achieved. What's certain for me is that Smith has batted better in these past 5 and a bit years than any batsman I've seen over a comparable stretch in their careers. That's where it should be left at for now. For all we know, he could average 90 over the next few years and end up in an actual debate with Bradman, let alone spuds like Tendulkar and Lara.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's still a 4 ton series though. Pretty special. There's only been twenty in the history of cricket

Would you rate Kohli's effort in that series up there with Lara 99? I certainly wouldn't even though the attack kohli made his runs against Harris and Hazelwood and Johnson instead of Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav.

 

[stephen]

Would you rate Kohli's effort in that series up there with Lara 99? I certainly wouldn't even though the attack kohli made his runs against Harris and Hazelwood and Johnson instead of Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav.

Personally I would not. Those pitches were flat as and there's a reason I didn't bring that up with the other 3 for Smith.

 

[mr_mister]

Would you rate Kohli's effort in that series up there with Lara 99? I certainly wouldn't even though the attack kohli made his runs against Harris and Hazelwood and Johnson instead of Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav.

I mean I consider Lara's 99 the best series ever so no, but I consider Kohlis series to be as good as Smith's in the 16/17 ashes at least.

 

[stephen]

Smith in 16/17 faced much tougher conditions in Brisbane than anything Kohli faced.

But what I do find interesting is that Smith now has 11 hundreds against England. That's the same number than Tendulkar scored against Australia in his career. Two more will put him equal second (with Gavaskar's 13 hundreds vs the WI). He won't overtake Bradman who scored a whopping 19 hundreds vs England (though if he did that'd be something very special).

That's just phenomenal really. 11 hundreds in 26 matches vs the old enemy. And when they've had a pretty good attack for that entire time (Anderson and Broad are world class).

 

[mr_mister]

That's true. But Kohli did it away from home which is always notable. They were roads but they still weren't home conditions

 

[Burgey]

How great was Sobers that for a large chunk of his career he was churning out Smith-like numbers and was a frontline bowler with it?

 

[vcs]

Would you rate Kohli's effort in that series up there with Lara 99? I certainly wouldn't even though the attack kohli made his runs against Harris and Hazelwood and Johnson instead of Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav.

The pitches were flat but the giant Aussie seamers usually find a way through visiting batsmen on them. They find just enough seam movement and bounce that the visiting quicks generally can't. Kohli batted superbly and had an answer to everything they threw at him.

I don't think they were any flatter than the Ashes series the previous year or the one in 2017-18 for example, going by my untrained eye.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Sobers did a lot of donkey work as a containing spinner. In one innings on a mat against Pakistan he bowled 40 odd overs and conceded about 40 runs.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Smith in 16/17 faced much tougher conditions in Brisbane than anything Kohli faced

Adelaide second innings vs India Lyon was ripping it miles. It's amazing how quickly people have forgotten this.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah. Smith faced English bowlers who are world class in home conditions and range from dreadful to mediocre over here

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Adelaide second innings vs India Lyon was ripping it miles. It's amazing how quickly people have forgotten this.

Yeah he got Kohli eventually though. One of Garrys very few poor deliveries that day, but Virat played an even worse shot to it. If he hadn't have done that maybe you might have a point

 

[sunilz]

Smith in 16/17 faced much tougher conditions in Brisbane than anything Kohli faced.

But what I do find interesting is that Smith now has 11 hundreds against England. That's the same number than Tendulkar scored against Australia in his career. Two more will put him equal second (with Gavaskar's 13 hundreds vs the WI). He won't overtake Bradman who scored a whopping 19 hundreds vs England (though if he did that'd be something very special).

That's just phenomenal really. 11 hundreds in 26 matches vs the old enemy. And when they've had a pretty good attack for that entire time (Anderson and Broad are world class).

Do you also consider Zaheer and Ishant as World class bowlers ?
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[sunilz]

Yeah he got Kohli eventually though. One of Garrys very few poor deliveries that day, but Virat played an even worse shot to it. If he hadn't have done that maybe you might have a point

And yet he managed a century in 4 th innings something Smith hasn't done in his entire career.
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[stephen]

And yet he managed a century in 4 th innings something Smith hasn't done in his entire career.
All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

I'm really not sure what your point is?

Is it that he still has areas of his game to work on?

Is it that he tends to make enough runs in the first innings so his side doesn't need him to ton up in the 4th innings?

Is it that he's a first innings bully?

All of these are true btw. Still doesn't stop him from averaging nearly 65.