The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Bolo]

How young are you? Did you watch Ambrose much? Garner was great but Ambrose was next level. Garner was never the best bowler in the side either, whereas Ambrose was almost constantly the best bowler in his side.

I saw my share of ambrose, but never garner, so the comparison lacks meaning.

To be clear, I'm not arguing garner is better. I just think its a question worth asking.

Being the best bowler in the side is an understandable reason for ranking ambrose ahead, but it isn't a logical one. There is a gulf in quality between Marshall and Walsh.

 

[trundler]

Ambrose's coming of age series in England where he played alongside Marshall is very good to watch as a fast bowling spectacle.

 

[h_hurricane]

Holding comes across as.a bowler who was more of a strike option and took more daddy hauls whereas Garner doesn't have a lot of 5fers and no 10fer. Plus, Holding debuted before the West Indies were a particularly strong team. Garner also suffers from being less memorable.

Akthar was more memorable than Pollock and could bring down a train when in full flow. That doesn't mean Pollock wasn't the better bowler

Also, ftr, Garner has a better strike rate and wickets per match than Holding.

 

[bagapath]

choosing between garner and ambrose can be done only by tossing a coin.

Both were tall and aggressive and extracted uncomfortable bounce from the wicket. garner had a superior yorker. ambrose had the deadliest off cutter. they were tireless and accurate. and they were thinking bowlers. ambrose had to - and did go for - the top dogs in the opposition batting lineups because he and Walsh had to do the job for their team. garner had the luxury of two other all time greats - some times three other - bowling with him. so he had to share the spoils with them. yet he had a better wk/m ratio than holding Roberts ambrose Walsh bishop croft.
garner never went wicketless in a test throughout his career. ambrose ran though more batting lineups more frequently than any other great fast bowler of his era.

funnily both never bowled in india, and when they played india at home, they were less than ordinary.

I guess the only way to settle this would be is to choose ambrose for tests and garner for ODIs.

 

[stephen]

Ambrose in tests and garner in ODIs. But I'd choose both any day of the week if they were available for my team.

 

[NUFAN]

Since I started watching cricket, the best Australian XI almost picks itself with only the second opener and third quick debatable.

01 Matthew Hayden
02 Justin Langer
03 Ricky Ponting
04 Steve Smith
05 Steve Waugh
06 Allan Border
07 Adam Gilchrist
08 Mitchell Johnson
09 Shane Warne
10 Jason Gillespie
11 Glenn McGrath

Boon, Taylor, Slater, Warner were considered for the opening spot
McDermott, Harris, Lee, Siddle, Starc, Reid, Hughes were in the mix for Johnson's spot.

EDIT - I don't actually love including Langer or Johnson. I picked them as I felt like they fit well with the 9 other locks.

 

[andmark]

Just a quick list of past cricketers who would've **** the bed with DRS: Boycott, SF Barnes, WG, Gavaskar.

 

[Starfighter]

Warne

 

[mr_mister]

Steve Waugh often appeared to think hed been sawn off whenever he was dismissed lol. Could have seen him review quite a bit especially due to his supposed obsession with keeping his average above 50

 

[Slifer]

Since I started watching cricket, the best Australian XI almost picks itself with only the second opener and third quick debatable.

01 Matthew Hayden
02 Justin Langer
03 Ricky Ponting
04 Steve Smith
05 Steve Waugh
06 Allan Border
07 Adam Gilchrist
08 Mitchell Johnson
09 Shane Warne
10 Jason Gillespie
11 Glenn McGrath

Boon, Taylor, Slater, Warner were considered for the opening spot
McDermott, Harris, Lee, Siddle, Starc, Reid, Hughes were in the mix for Johnson's spot.

EDIT - I don't actually love including Langer or Johnson. I picked them as I felt like they fit well with the 9 other locks.

Better than most teams at xi. Damn Australia just keeps on churning out outstanding players.

 

[Red]

Garner was the WI pace quartet's spinner, more or less.

 

[Bolo]

Who was the leading spinner of that era? Qadir? Garner looks even better than his already awesomeness if we think about it this way.

 

[h_hurricane]

My ATG WI team

Greenidge
Richards
Headley
Lara
Weekes
Sobers
Walcott
Marshall
Ambrose
Holding
Garner

Opening with Richards(he has done well there) gives an opportunity to sneak in one more ATG batsman. I wouldn't think of a spinner when there is a luxury to pick Marshall,Ambrose,Holding and Garner. Would bowl Sobers as a spinner once in a while to improve over rate.

 

[stephen]

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for Lance Gibbs. He was a world class spinner and I feel the Windies quartet would be too hard to manage in today's era of punishing for slow over rates.

 

[h_hurricane]

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for Lance Gibbs. He was a world class spinner and I feel the Windies quartet would be too hard to manage in today's era of punishing for slow over rates.

12-15 overs per day of Sobers and asking him to get through his overs as quickly as Sir RJ would do it imo. Gibbs was an outstanding spinner, but Holding is an ATG. Marshall, Ambrose and Garner are locks for me. There is also a possibility that bowlers of this quality may not need to bowl 15 over an hour to win matches.

 

[vcs]

If there was some way to have an actual ATG XI A vs. ATG XI B match, with everyone in their primes, we'd still call the players who failed ****/bottlers.

 

[h_hurricane]

If there was some way to have an actual ATG XI A vs. ATG XI B match, with everyone in their primes, we'd still call the players who failed ****/bottlers.

I am thinking about making an XI out of ATG players who would have been part of their country's ATG XI but sure to bottle when up against other ATG XIs. Would be hard to comprehensively prove it though.

 

[h_hurricane]

Just gave it a try. Some of these players are locks for their country whereas others are borderline picks.

Sehwag(swinging conditions)
Jayasurya(swinging conditions)
Ponting(spin, especially India)
Root(get him to a 50)
Yousuf (SA or Aus)
Botham (WI)
Mccullum (away from home)
Warne (India anywhere)
Lillee (subcontinent)
Anderson (away from clouds)
Murali (Aus)

 

[stephen]

Valleys District Cricket Club XI (this only counts players who actually turned up and played, so Botham doesn't get in even though he was a member for a year):

Matthew Hayden
Keppler Wessels
Usman Khawaja
Allan Border*
Stuart Law
Greg Richie
Don Tallon+
Richie Benaud
Alan Davidson
Joe Dawes
Luke Feldman

12th Jack Leach

 

[Malcolm]

Ponting's problem against spin is severely overrated. IMO he was a very good player of spin.