The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[Slifer]

To play against:

Trumper
Boycott
Barrington
May
Harvey
S.Waugh*
Ames +
Larwood
Spofforth
Anderson
Laker

Vs the rest of the world xi

Gavaskar
G Smith/Barry Richards
Richards
Sachin
Lara
Sobers
Sangakara+
Imran*
Hadlee
Marshall
Murali

 

[jimmy101]

Please, any mention of Hayden in an ATG Aussie team hurts my brain.

 

[Slifer]

Please, any mention of Hayden in an ATG Aussie team hurts my brain.

True but very very few openers have finished their careers averaging over 50 so you have a give him kudos for that.

 

[stephen]

Please, any mention of Hayden in an ATG Aussie team hurts my brain.

Why? He should at least be in the conversation. Trumper, Simpson, Lawry and Hayden are the leading 4 Australian openers and of those Hayden is potentially the most reliable, scoring centuries quite frequently.

 

[jimmy101]

Haydos was a wonderful batsman by all means, definitely a top-10 Aust opener. Typically aggressive and unafraid to assert himself upon any bowler. Just feel he is a good example of a player whose stats flatter him.

I'd take any of Trumper, Ponsford, Jackson, Morris, Simpson or Lawry before him.

Possibly even David Warner.

 

[Coronis]

Haydos was a wonderful batsman by all means, definitely a top-10 Aust opener. Typically aggressive and unafraid to assert himself upon any bowler. Just feel he is a good example of a player whose stats flatter him.

I'd take any of Trumper, Ponsford, Jackson, Morris, Simpson or Lawry before him.

Possibly even David Warner.

Ok.

 

[jimmy101]

Ok.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Coronis]

Care to elaborate?

Taking someone who only played 8 tests and was not outstanding compared to his peers, either at first class or test level over Hayden sounds about right.

 

[jimmy101]

He was outstanding compared to his peers though.

What next? Mike Procter was a crap player cause he played less than 10 matches?

 

[Coronis]

He was outstanding compared to his peers though.

What next? Mike Procter was a crap player cause he played less than 10 matches?

I’m sorry, which peers were these?

 

[jimmy101]

Pretty much every cricket journalist & player at the time rated him just below Bradman. Maybe his stats don't measure up to such glowing reviews, but neither do Trumper's for example.

 

[mr_mister]

But Trumpers stats do look good when compared to his peers

 

[jimmy101]

Trumper averaged the same as Clem Hill. Would you consider them to be identical?

 

[Coronis]

Pretty much every cricket journalist & player at the time rated him just below Bradman. Maybe his stats don't measure up to such glowing reviews, but neither do Trumper's for example.

iirc a lot of that praise was directed towards his style etc. He was a good batsman, obviously talented, but is not in the discussion for an ATG Aussie side. Ponsford and Woodfull in just his own time were clearly superior.

 

[jimmy101]

iirc a lot of that praise was directed towards his style etc. He was a good batsman, obviously talented, but is not in the discussion for an ATG Aussie side. Ponsford and Woodfull in just his own time were clearly superior.

True, but we cannot forget that he had yet to hit his prime before he died. Naturally in a case such as Jackson's raw talent is going to be heralded moreso than anything. Hayden didn't average very much at Test level when he was only 23, far less than Jackson. Same goes for Steve Smith, but we all know how much they improved on their averages once they matured into the batsmen we remember them as.

 

[jimmy101]

And yeah, I actually rate Ponsford quite highly. Trumper/Ponsford would be my ATG Aussie opening combo.

 

[mr_mister]

Trumper averaged the same as Clem Hill. Would you consider them to be identical?

More or less actually. Clem Hill is quite underrated imo

 

[trundler]

I'll say Trumper was better because he averaged the same opening and had more X factor. Hill on the other hand was by no means a merely good player either. Quick scoring and exciting player with some ATG knocks to his name, much like Trumper himself.

 

[ankitj]

We should create an XI out of "underrated" players of pre-WWII period. There are many names I hear of cricketers who are considered great but their stats are pretty underwhelming. Trumper and Larwood will be certainties in such an XI. Other names would be Clem Hill, Charles Macartney, Ted MacDonald etc.

 

[trundler]

We should create an XI out of "underrated" players of pre-WWII period. There are many names I hear of cricketers who are considered great but their stats are pretty underwhelming. Trumper and Larwood will be certainties in such an XI.

I wouldn't say Trumper and Larwood are in the same boat. Trumper's stats are pretty great in context though his reputation is greater (maybe like Viv).