The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[trundler]

Then honestly they need their heads read. It doesn't matter how good Knott was as a keeper, the gap between his keeping and Gilchrist's keeping can't make up for all the tests Gilchrist won off the back of his batting.

It's not like Gilchrist was at Wade levels with three gloves either. He might have dropped one catch every four or five tests at most. And he was tested against both world class spin and pace behind the stumps.

The converse argument is true of Knott. GOAT keeper potentially without being Bari level with the bat. If you look at his batting at 7 he averages 40. Picking Knott over Gilchrist has its merits. In fact Knott, Hadlee, Marshall, Steyn, Warne isn't that weak a tail. You can argue the difference in batting is made up for by Knott potentially stumping Martian Bradman.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The fact that Gilchrist was such an amazing batsman sometimes makes people forget the fact that he was an outstanding keeper. Any benefit of Knott's superior keeping at that level is going to be marginal in terms of it impacting results imo.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Useful trundler as well (RE: Gilchrist)

 

[trundler]

In terms of keeping:
Knott, Tallon, Evans, Oldfield et all. Bob Taylor potentially.
Bari, Waite, Cameron.
Gilchrist, Kirmani, Engineer.
Rashid Latif in there somewhere. Gut feeling.

Basing this on my personal impressions from reading and watching. Could be so so wrong.

Batting:
Gilchrist
.
.
.
Knott
The rest.

You could argue Gilchrist's batting wouldn't be needed that often. Sure he was a great keeper but you just need to watch footage of Knott to know awesome he was.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Rashid Latif

 

[trundler]

Latif was excellent. Terribad batsman but great keeper who didn't play enough looks like Jack Russell. Probably not an elite keeper on second thought.. Definitely not but deserved a mention.

 

[trundler]

Moin was the meh keeper.

 

[trundler]

Wisden - The great wicket-keepers

A salute to wicket keepers - ESPN

Two great Wisden articles on the subject which every CWer ought to read.

 

[Slifer]

Sure in for most world XIs:

Bradman
Sobers
Gilchrist

No explanation necessary. The last two are not necessarily the Bradman of their respective crafts but with Sobers for example u get: atg batman who literally scored 100s at every batting position so he could theoretically bat anywhere. Decent bowler who could bowl anything. Atg fielder who could field anywhere. In many respects, he really is the best all around cricketer.

 

[trundler]

Sobers makes an all time top 6 on batting merit alone. He's probably in the top 4 middle order bats of all time. He'd be batting six and I cannot think of anyone else who rivals his batting at 5/6. Getting clutch wickets and being an elite fielder are add-ons you get with Sobers the master batsman.

 

[akilana]

Imagine Sobers and Gilchrist going at it for a session or two.

Can’t imagine. Good/great bowling attacks will easily contain Gilly especially if he had to walk in at 75/5

 

[akilana]

The fact that Gilchrist was such an amazing batsman sometimes makes people forget the fact that he was an outstanding keeper. Any benefit of Knott's superior keeping at that level is going to be marginal in terms of it impacting results imo.

Sorry. Watched ashes 2005.

 

[bagapath]

Sorry. Watched ashes 2005.

that exception actually proves the rule

 

[bagapath]

Can’t imagine. Good/great bowling attacks will easily contain Gilly especially if he had to walk in at 75/5

When the score is 75/5 against great bowling attacks, gilchrist is the best guy to walk in

 

[Bolo]

When the score is 75/5 against great bowling attacks, gilchrist is the best guy to walk in

We assume. AUS was not in he habit of 75/5.

Anything for 5 and he's the man though. Great bat.

 

[smash84]

Rashid Latif

I am guessing you never saw Latif keep. He was exceptional.

 

[trundler]

When the score is 75/5 against great bowling attacks, gilchrist is the best guy to walk in

That's where Knott really shone too though.

 

[bagapath]

That's where Knott really shone too though.

Agree. Both absolute champs. Gilly is my personal preference. But i Wont complain if i've to take Knott.

 

[Coronis]

Oldfield doesn't get enough credit imo. Even though he played with some top quality spinners, his stumping ratio per match is ****ing insane.

 

[steve132]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Les Ames. As a batsman he was Gilchrist Sr., scoring over 100 centuries in first class cricket and averaging 40 in Tests. He was also a great wicketkeeper - not quite the equal of his Kent successors Evans and Knott, but outstanding by any other standard.