The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[bagapath]

On this day 30 years ago...

April 27, 1988

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Crowe
Miandad
Border (c)
Jeff Dujon (wk)
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Abdul Qadir
(Imran had retired after the '87 WC)

20 years ago

April 27, 1998

Anwar
Kirsten
Lara
Tendulkar
Inzamam
S. Waugh (c)
Healy (wk)
Warne
Ambrose
Donald
McGrath

10 years ago

April 27,2008

Smith (c)
Sehwag
Ponting
Sangakara
Kallis
Chanderpal
Dhoni (wk)
Johnson
Steyn
Murali
Anderson

 

[AndrewB]

On this day 30 years ago...

April 27, 1988

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Crowe
Miandad
Border (c)
Jeff Dujon (wk)
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Abdul Qadir
(Imran had retired after the '87 WC)

He'd returned from retirement by April - he took 20-odd wickets against WI that month.

 

[bagapath]

Well... That takes care of it... Doesn't it?

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Miandad
Border (c)
Imran Khan
Jeff Dujon (wk)
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Malcolm Marshall
Abdul Qadir

 

[trundler]

My All Time Australia XI's based on 2 approaches
Team A
Bill Lawry
Bob Simpson
Don Bradman
Greg Chappell
Vic Trumper
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist
Ray Lindwall
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath
OR
Trumper, Lawry, Don, G Chappell, Ponting, Border, Gilly, Davidson, Warne, Lillee, McGrath

 

[trundler]

I just went through all 500+ pages.

 

[cnerd123]

I just went through all 500+ pages.

189 pages you n00b

#40pppMasterRace

 

[trundler]

Ponting doesn't get enough love here IMO. Best bat of the noughties and was spectacular for a decade then fell away at the end. Like Viv...

 

[mr_mister]

i usually bracket him into a little group with Sachin and Lara

 

[harsh.ag]

Ponting doesn't get enough love here IMO. Best bat of the noughties and was spectacular for a decade then fell away at the end. Like Viv...

Think it's because it was one of the easier eras for batting, and compared to Chappell and Border and SWaugh, his resume seems a little lacking wrt facing great attacks. Plus, record in India and him being a bit of a **** on the field every now and then. Add all this to the falling away at the end and with these exercises, small things add up since there is so little to choose between these guys.

 

[jimmy101]

The AB XI

Alick Bannerman
Alan Butcher
Abbas Ali Baig
Allan Border*
AB de Villiers+
Aftab Baloch
Ted a'Beckett
Andy Blignaut
Andy Bichel
Alec Bedser
Alan Brown

 

[Starfighter]

Ali Bacher a possibility?

 

[jimmy101]

Ali Bacher a possibility?

Absolutely. Missed him somehow. England's Ali Brown also a candidate. Both men would form part of the extended Test squad.

EDIT: Adam Bacher too.

 

[trundler]

What do you guys think would be the standard score in a series between 2 ATG squads? I think it would be a case of bowl dominating bat because there's only been 1 time 4 really top notch quicks have come together and everyone knows what happened then. Several great batsmen like Crowe, Miandad, Gavaskar, Chappell, Border, etc were around and they struggled against them. My estimate would be 250+ depending on the surface. Batters like Sachin, and Lara have struggled against Donald/Pollock, Wasim Waqar etc and this is a level above that. Bradman still head and shoulders above the rest tho.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Ponting doesn't get enough love here IMO. Best bat of the noughties and was spectacular for a decade then fell away at the end. Like Viv...

This is an interesting one.

From 2006 (that's when I joined so counting from then) till about 2009-10, Ponting was rated on par if not better than Tendulkar, Lara here. There were a number of Ponting vs Enter name threads and Ponting was rated right up there, with people debating whether he would go past Tendulkar's tally

I feel the 2011-12 period left a bad taste in people's mouths. How you retire has a tremendous impact on your legacy. Lara who doesn't quite have Ponting's numbers and consistency finished his career without that massive decline. In 2006 he was still blasting double hundreds and retired early 2007.

Another example of Sangakara. He wasn't rated as highly for most part of his career but then his run in the last 2 years of his career and his post career County stint took him to legendary status.

Amla is another one - rated as the best here a few years ago. Now rated below the Big 4.

 

[trundler]

It's a little unfair don't you think? Ponting had a massive, massive, MASSIVE peak. Second only to King Viv in my view. No one dominated pace attacks like Ponting did in his time. His peak was more staggering Sachin but maybe below/on par Lara. He was top-notch for a decade which is a long time then went downhill significantly. He never got to minnow bash. Plus that 4th innings average. People make an exception for Viv and Akram who were brilliant for long enough then went downhill so why not Ponting? He was a dominant player too. He has the most runs in a decade, most runs over a stretch of 50 tests, among other things. Granted it was a batting friendly era but still, Ponting was still certainly top-notch. Between Lara and Tendulkar I rate them as follows.
Based on peak: Lara>Ponting>Sachin
Based on consistency: Sachin>Ponting> Lara (ignoring that dreadful decline)
Based on stellar performances: Lara>Ponting>Sachin
Based on longevity: Sachin> Lara and Ponting (not sure about this one but Sachin clear winner).
Sure he had a bad record in India but that's just one series before his decline and Viv, Sobers failed in NZ but they're still rated highly. Besides Tendulkar, Greg Chappel and Border no one has been that great everywhere. Border averages 38 in SA ftr (3 matches towards the end. Not that bad) Chappel and Sachin 40+ everywhere though Chappell declined tough tours and all. Still, Ponting is the best number 3 there's been since Viv who was the best since the Don himself at no 3.

 

[Coronis]

I do feel like Bradman’s peak was a touch higher than Viv’s, but feel free to correct me. There was some fun thread about peak batting and or bowling periods over x amount of tests somewhere (or maybe it was an article on cricinfo?) idk cbf finding whatever it was but depending on how you define peak it makes for interesting reading.

 

[smash84]

I do feel like Bradman’s peak was a touch higher than Viv’s, but feel free to correct me. There was some fun thread about peak batting and or bowling periods over x amount of tests somewhere (or maybe it was an article on cricinfo?) idk cbf finding whatever it was but depending on how you define peak it makes for interesting reading.

Well, in most cases, it is assumed that we're not counting Bradman

 

[trundler]

Well we're talking about normal batsmen. Bradman is an outlier in every batting analysis so I didn't mention him. Of course his peak was higher. He averaged 56 in his worst series! Of course his peak was higher too - in fact no one comes within 30% of his peak average at their peak. So yeah, not counting Bradman.

 

[Coronis]

Boo, its unfair to leave him out.

 

[trundler]

It just goes without saying, really. Should just have an abbreviation for it. I'd suggest AB (After Bradman) but it would piss off a certain Aussie member