The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

[centurymaker]

Bradman gives Australia the edge but who knows how he would fare on dustbowls against some of the top spinners India's produced, none of whom Bradman ever faced nor did he have to play reverse swing. So Bradman is a mystery, could gun it or succumb like the rest.

 

[Bolo]

That India team is short a bowler.

Swap Az out for say Mankad and the top 6 is much weaker than AUS and WI. Maybe slightly stronger than England and RSA? Definitely weaker than RSA if considering the entire lineup, not just top 6.

Too early in Kohli's career to put him ahead of (say) merchant? I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up top three with Tendulkar and Gavaskar by the time he's done though.

 

[Victor Ian]

You include kohli but not Smith?
What about tails.

 

[Red]

Tendulkar > Chappell

Genuinely interested in what your rationale is here.

 

[Red]

Anyway, for me India would be:

Gavaskar
Merchant
Dravid
Tendulkar
Hazare
Mankad
Dhoni
Kapil
Kumble
Zaheer
Srinath

 

[Zinzan]

India all-time XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Azharuddin
Dhoni+
Dev
Kumble
Khan
Bedi

.

You serious about pitting this team against other nations greatest XIs with a bowling attack comprising of just 4 bowlers, none of which average less than 28. Surely you can do better than this, otherwise it's by far the weakest bowling attack of any of the all-time great sides (excluding Bangers and Zim).

 

[Zinzan]

People don't realize how good Gavaskar was, dude was the master opener in the era of most deadly bowlers and he batted without a helmet all his career. Fearless and perhaps the best defensive batsman of all time. Singlehandedly kept India competitive overseas. If he had played in the modern era with big bats, short boundaries, fast outfields where you just play a half defensive shot and ball races to the boundary.. if he had play now, he would be averaging 60+, and who knows how much if didn't have to face the new ball everytime. His achievements for his era are staggering.

Disagree that Gavaskar is generally underrated by most knowledgeable cricket fans. If it wasn't for Hobbs and Hutton, he'd make my all-time greatest all-time XI as an opener, and is definitely the 3rd best of all-time for me. Doubt he would have averaged 60 today however, perhaps mid 50s which is still phenomenal for an opener.

 

[harsh.ag]

Gavaskar
Mankad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Sehwag
Dhoni +
Kapil
Kumble
Srinath
Gupte

 

[Coronis]

Disagree that Gavaskar is generally underrated by most knowledgeable cricket fans. If it wasn't for Hobbs and Hutton, he'd make my all-time greatest all-time XI as an opener, and is definitely the 3rd best of all-time for me. Doubt he would have averaged 60 today however, perhaps mid 50s which is still phenomenal for an opener.

Yeah he's in my 2nd XI, its just that unfortunately for him, he's competing with Hobbs, Sutcliffe and Hutton, 3 of the best batsmen ever to play. Amazing player and I really rate him, but for me the others all shade him.

 

[Victor Ian]

Gavaskar
Mankad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Sehwag
Dhoni +
Kapil
Kumble
Srinath
Gupte

I like this. I always wonder what Sehwag would have been as a non opener. Perhaps opening allowed him the freedom to play without wickets already down but in this team he'd be often coming in with heaps on the board. This is why we need parallel universes.

 

[Chrish]

I consider Gavaskar to be the greatest test opener of covered wicket era as it’s pretty much impossible to compare him with Hobbs and Hutton. Him and Barry would open in my all time Xi.

 

[Gob]

How good is WI AT team?

Greenidge
Gayle
Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers c
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Garner/Gibbs
Ambrose

Hated picking Gayle but the bloke has two triples. Gibbs may only come in for a real turner otherwise sobers would suffice.

 

[Coronis]

How good is WI AT team?

Greenidge
Gayle
Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers c
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Garner/Gibbs
Ambrose

Hated picking Gayle but the bloke has two triples. Gibbs may only come in for a real turner otherwise sobers would suffice.

Still the 2nd strongest team, I'd prefer Hunte opening but that's just me.. if you wanted more batting too, Walcott could come in as keeper. Australia still wins though.

Hayden
Trumper
Bradman*
Chappell
Border
Miller
Gilchrist+
Lindwall
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

or can sub Lindwall out for an extra batsman if you wanted.

 

[Zinzan]

How good is WI AT team?

Greenidge
Gayle
Headley
Richards
Lara
Sobers c
Dujon +
Marshall
Holding
Garner/Gibbs
Ambrose

Hated picking Gayle but the bloke has two triples. Gibbs may only come in for a real turner otherwise sobers would suffice.

Nah Gayle was never much chop vs. great attacks in challenging conditions, classic downhill skier.

Greenidge
Hunte/Worrell
Viv
Lara
Headley
Sobers
Walcott+
Marshall
Holding/Gibbs (Gibbs if spinning conditions, otherwise you the 4 quicks plus Sobers spin variety).
Garner
Ambrose

Unlike many I also rate Garner as slightly superior than Holding.

 

[Zinzan]

Still the 2nd strongest team, I'd prefer Hunte opening but that's just me.. if you wanted more batting too, Walcott could come in as keeper.

Stole my thunder.

 

[Gob]

Nah Gayle was never much chop vs. great attacks in challenging conditions, classic downhill skier.

Greenidge
Hunte/Worrell
Viv
Lara
Headley
Sobers
Walcott+
Marshall
Holding/Gibbs (Gibbs if spinning conditions, otherwise you the 4 quicks plus Sobers spin variety).
Garner
Ambrose

Unlike many I also rate Garner as slightly superior than Holding.

Roy Fredricks may be

 

[bagapath]

three West Indian XIs

greenidge
hunte
viv richards
headley
lara
sobers *
dujon +
marshall
holding
ambrose
gibbs


fredericks
haynes
worrell *
walcott
weekes
chaderpaul
murray +
roberts
garner
walsh
ramadin

stollmeyer
gayle
richardson
kanhai
kallicharan
lloyd *
jacobs +
bishop
hall
croft
valentine

 

[Coronis]

Pretty ridiculous middle order for a 2nd XI. Worrell, Weekes, Walcott, Chanderpaul.

 

[a massive zebra]

Short Lived XI (some of the best cricketers to die before their time)

Phil Hughes
Reg Duff
Victor Trumper
Archie Jackson
Frank Worrell (c, 5)
Hansie Cronje (6)
Jock Cameron (w)
Hedley Verity (4)
Amar Singh (2)
Malcolm Marshall (1)
Ken Farnes (3)

Colin Blythe could come in for Ken Farnes on a turner.

Aged XI (some of the best cricketers who lived to a ripe old age)

Arthur Morris
Bill Ponsford
Don Bradman (c)
Everton Weekes
Neil Harvey
Frank Woolley (5)
Wilfred Rhodes (4)
Alan Davidson (3)
Harold Larwood (1)
Herbert Strudwick (w)
Sydney Barnes (2)

Larwood over Bedser is very debatable but I went for the former as he adds real pace to the attack and is a significantly better batsman.

 

[Pratters]

India all-time XI

Gavaskar
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Kohli
Azharuddin
Dhoni+
Dev
Kumble
Khan
Bedi


That batting-line.... is as good as any!
Kohli is pretty much an ATG, he is probably going to end up with at least 40 tons in tests, and 100+ tons in total.

Azharuddin > Laxman imo
(match-fixing killed his legacy so no one bothers about him. He played in a more difficult era and did brilliantly. Laxman on the other hand is more of Australia specialist).

Picking spinners is the most difficult. Bedi probably edges his contemporaries and Kumble with 600+ wickets edges the likes of Chandrasekhar, Harbhajan, Ashwin.

Why not Chandra ahead of Kumble? Bloke was best of the quartet while Kumble struggled abroad for half his career.