kyear2
International Coach
The lower it gets, the harder the selections, and so many players you're trying to fit in.
I'm not Kapil's biggest fan tbh, don't think his bowling was quite up to par.
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
I'm not Kapil's biggest fan tbh, don't think his bowling was quite up to par.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Top 125 Batsmen (Test + FC):
Top 125 Bowlers (Test + FC):
Top 40 Wicketkeepers (Test + FC):
Top 40 All Rounders (Test + FC):
Top 20 Captains (Test + FC):
Top 30 Fielders in the outfield and close range (Not ranked):
- Don Bradman
- W G Grace
- Jack Hobbs
- Sachin Tendulkar
- Garry Sobers
- Steve Smith
- Brian Lara
- Viv Richards
- Sunil Gavaskar
- Len Hutton
- Wally Hammond
- George Headley
- Herbert Sutcliffe
- Graeme Pollock
- Allan Border
- Jacques Kallis
- Greg Chappell
- Kumar Sangakkara
- K S Ranjitsinhji
- Victor Trumper
- Steve Waugh
- Ricky Ponting
- Rahul Dravid
- Barry Richards
- Everton Weekes
- Ken Barrington
- Dudley Nourse
- Javed Miandad
- Clyde Walcott
- A B de Villiers
- Virat Kohli
- Joe Root
- Younis Khan
- Dennis Compton
- Kane Williamson
- Neil Harvey
- Clem Hill
- Rohan Kanhai
- Geoff Boycott
- Peter May
- Andy Flower
- Frank Worrell
- Charlie MaCartney
- Arthur Shrewsbury
- Martin Crowe
- Clive Lloyd
- Gordon Greenidge
- Hashim Amla
- Shivnarine Chanderpaul
- Graeme Smith
- Matthew Hayden
- Virendra Sehwag
- Bruce Mitchell
- Inzamam-ul-Haq
- Bob Simpson
- Bill Lawry
- Alaistar Cook
- Adam Gilchrist
- Stan McCabe
- Kevin Pietersen
- V V S Laxman
- Michael Clarke
- Mahela Jayawardene
- Colin Cowdrey
- Graham Gooch
- Arthur Morris
- Herbie Taylor
- Mohammad Yousuf
- David Gower
- Bill Ponsford
- Doug Walters
- Vijay Merchant
- Aravinda de Silva
- Hanif Mohammad
- Vijay Hazare
- Ted Dexter
- Conrad Hunte
- Garry Kirsten
- Patsy Hendren
- Michael Hussey
- Cheteshwar Pujara
- Lindsay Hassett
- Graham Thorpe
- Archie Maclaren
- David Boon
- Ian Chappell
- Glenn Turner
- Stanley Jackson
- Ross Taylor
- Alvin Kallicharran
- Zaheer Abbas
- Richie Richardson
- C B Fry
- Maurice Leyland
- Bill Woodfull
- Mohinder Amarnath
- Roy Fredericks
- Desmond Haynes
- Tom Graveney
- Mark Waugh
- Norm O'Neill
- Dennis Amiss
- Saeed Anwar
- Jack Ryder
- Damien Martyn
- Salim Mallik
- Justin Langer
- Alec Stewart
- Dilip Vengsarkar
- Usman Khawaja
- Mark Taylor
- Gundappa Viswanath
- Sid Barnes
- Mohammad Azharuddin
- Marnus Labuschagne
- Seymour Nurse
- Frank Woolley
- Warren Bardsley
- David Warner
- Phil Mead
- Eddie Paynter
- Michael Slater
- Tom Hayward
- Angelo Mathews
- Polly Umrigar
Top 125 Bowlers (Test + FC):
- Malcolm Marshall
- Glenn McGrath
- Richard Hadlee
- Sydney Barnes
- Mutthiah Muralitharan
- Shane Warne
- Dale Steyn
- Imran Khan
- Curtly Ambrose
- Bill O'Reilly
- Wasim Akram
- Allan Donald
- Dennis Lillee
- Joel Garner
- Ray Lindwall
- Michael Holding
- Fred Trueman
- Alan Davidson
- Waqar Younis
- Vincent van der Bijl
- Courtney Walsh
- Pat Cummins
- Shaun Pollock
- Mike Procter
- Andy Roberts
- Ravichandran Ashwin
- Clarrie Grimmett
- James Anderson
- Fred Spofforth
- Jim Laker
- Kagiso Rabada
- Jasprit Bumrah
- Alec Bedser
- Hedley Verity
- Harold Larwood
- Anil Kumble
- Hugh Tayfield
- Brian Statham
- Bob Willis
- Lance Gibbs
- Vernon Philander
- Derek Underwood
- Ian Bishop
- Wes Hall
- B S Chandrasekhar
- Keith Miller
- John Snow
- Bishen Singh Bedi
- Nathan Lyon
- Neil Adcock
- Kapil Dev
- Ian Botham
- Wilfred Rhodes
- Frank Tyson
- Peter Pollock
- Shoaib Akhtar
- Bill Johnston
- Richie Benaud
- Stuart Broad
- Garth Le Roux
- Hugh Trumble
- Charlie Turner
- Tom Richardson
- George Lohmann
- Graeme Swann
- Maurice Tate
- Ravindra Jadeja
- Colin Croft
- Fazal Mahmood
- Rangana Herath
- Sylvester Clarke
- Jason Gillespie
- Saqlain Mushtaq
- Josh Hazlewood
- Neil Wagner
- Mohammad Shami
- Johnny Wardle
- Trent Boult
- Colin Blythe
- Mitchell Johnson
- Subhash Gupte
- Sonny Ramadhin
- Craig McDermott
- Garth McKenzie
- Erapalli Prasanna
- Jeff Thomson
- Bert Vogler
- Chamunda Vaas
- Heath Streak
- Bobby Peel
- Morne Morkel
- Ryan Harris
- Stuart MacGill
- Darren Gough
- Mitchell Starc
- Tim Southee
- Johnny Briggs
- Tony Lock
- Jack Cowie
- Mohammad Asif
- Wayne Daniel
- Bill Lockwood
- Makhaya Ntini
- Kyle Jamieson
- Shane Bond
- Bill Bowes
- Bill Voce
- Bruce Reid
- Amar Singh
- Manny Martindale
- Bruce Taylor
- Harbhajan Singh
- Mohammad Nissar
- Fanie de Villiers
- Bert Ironmonger
- Ted Peate
- Alf Valentine
- Terry Alderman
- Ted McDonald
- Tich Freeman
- Ernie Toshack
- Angus Fraser
- Merv Hughes
- Javagal Srinath
- John J Ferris
Top 40 Wicketkeepers (Test + FC):
- Adam Gilchrist
- Kumar Sangakkara
- A B de Villiers
- Clyde Walcott
- Les Ames
- Alan Knott
- B J Watling
- John Waite
- Andy Flower
- M S Dhoni
- Jock Cameron
- Ian Healy
- Rishabh Pant
- Farokh Engineer
- Quinton de Kock
- Denis Lindsay
- Matt Prior
- Alec Stewart
- Jeff Dujon
- Brendon McCullum
- Mohammad Rizwan
- Rod Marsh
- Prasanna Jayawardene
- Wridhiman Saha
- Godfrey Evans
- Bert Oldfield
- Jack Russell
- Mark Boucher
- Syed Kirmani
- Rashid Latif
- Dinesh Chandimal
- Mushfiqur Rahim
- Ray Jennings
- Tatenda Taibu
- Brad Haddin
- Tom Blundell
- Don Tallon
- Imtiaz Ahmed
- Sarfaraz Ahmed
- Jim Parks
Top 40 All Rounders (Test + FC):
- W G Grace
- Garry Sobers
- Imran Khan
- Jacques Kallis
- Keith Miller
- Mike Procter
- Ian Botham
- Wilfred Rhodes
- Shaun Pollock
- Kapil Dev
- Aubrey Faulkner
- Ravindra Jadeja
- Richard Hadlee
- Shakib Al Hasan
- Clive Rice
- Eddie Barlow
- Frank Woolley
- Monty Noble
- Trevor Goddard
- Ben Stokes
- Tony Greig
- Wally Hammond
- Chris Cairns
- Vinoo Mankad
- Warwick Armstrong
- Mushtaq Mohammad
- Jack Gregory
- Andrew Flintoff
- Alan Davidson
- Ravichandran Ashwin
- Frank Worrell
- Bob Simpson
- Allan Steel
- Richie Benaud
- George Hirst
- Brian McMillan
- Trevor Bailey
- Basil D'Oliveira
- Learie Constantine
- Jason Holder
Top 20 Captains (Test + FC):
- Frank Worrell
- Richie Benaud
- Imran Khan
- Don Bradman
- Douglas Jardine
- Allan Border
- Mike Brearley
- Eddie Barlow
- Arjuna Ranatunga
- Ian Chappell
- Mark Taylor
- Bill Woodfull
- Stephen Fleming
- Clive Rice
- Clive Lloyd
- M A K Pataudi
- Monty Noble
- Peter May
- Steve Waugh
- Sourav Ganguly
Top 30 Fielders in the outfield and close range (Not ranked):
- Colin Bland
- Bob Simpson
- Wally Hammond
- Jonty Rhodes
- Phil Sharpe
- Basharat Hasan
- Mark Waugh
- Derek Randall
- Greg Chappell
- Bruce Mitchell
- Ricky Ponting
- Jacques Kallis
- Andrew Symonds
- Mohammad Azharuddin
- Norm O'Neill
- Eknath Solkar
- Mike Procter
- Roger Harper
- Viv Richards
- Garry Sobers
- Paul Collingwood
- A B de Villiers
- Roshan Mahanama
- Chris Harris
- Michael Clarke
- Faf du Plessis
- Alvin Kallicharran
- Neil Harvey
- Rohan Kanhai
- Colin Cowdrey
Last edited:
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
Lot to take in here. To begin with I have analysed your top 40 batsmen and my thorough and objective analysis suggests these batsmen may have been overrated:
1. Don Bradman
6. Steve Smith
15. Allan Border
17. Greg Chappell
20. Victor Trumper
21. Steve Waugh
22. Ricky Ponting
36. Neil Harvey
37. Clem Hill
In contrast, the following strike
2. W.G. Grace
3. Jack Hobbs
10. Len Hutton
11. Wally Hammond
13. Herbert Sutcliffe
19. K.S. Ranjitsinhji
26. Ken Barrington
32. Joe Root
34. Dennis Compton
39. Geoff Boycott
40. Peter May
ImpatientLime
International Regular
anyone not got Root in their England xi?
Coronis
International Coach
Since it is Test + FC I have to disagree re: Barrington being underrated (I know guys calm down calm down chill). He was actually quite mediocre in non test FC matches, depending on weighting 26 could be too high or just right.
non test stats:
451 matches 700 innings 24908 runs @ 44.16 56 tons 135 50’s
Probably also contributes to him being underrated purely as a test batsman due to increased importance of FC performances in the English mindset at the time.
kyear2
International Coach
If we're going to include 1st class, hence cricket in general.
Top 50 batsmen
1. Don Bradman
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Garry Sobers
4. Viv Richards
5. Jack Hobbs
6. Steve Smith
7. Brian Lara
8. Barry Richards
9. Len Hutton
10. Greg Chappell
11. Sunny Gavaskar
12. Wally Hammond
13. Ricky Ponting
14. Jacques Kallis
15. George Headley
16. Allan Border
17. Graeme Pollock
18. Herbert Sutcliffe
19. Kumar Sangakkara
20. Steve Waugh
21. Rahul Dravid
22. Everton Weekes
23. Ken Barrington
24. Javed Miandad
25. Clyde Walcott
26. Dudley Nourse
27. Joe Root
28. Graeme Smith
29. Younis Khan
30. Dudley Nourse
31. Virat Kohli
32. AB de Villiers
33. Neil Harvey
34. Dennis Compton
35. Rohan Kanhai
36. Kane Williamson
37. Gordon Greenidge
38. Martin Crowe
39. Frank Worrell
40. Matthew Hayden
41. Clive Lloyd
42. Peter May
43. Hashim Amla
44. Shivnarine Chanderpaul
45. Inzamam Ul Haq
46. Bobby Simpson
47. Geoffrey Boycott
48. Andy Flower
49. Adam Gilchrist
50. Mahela Jayawardene
Top 50 bowlers
1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn McGrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Dale Steyn
5. Shane Warne
6. Muttiah Muralitharan
7. Curtly Ambrose
8. Imran Khan
9. Allan Donald
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Wasim Akram
12. Joel Garner
13. Bill O'Reilly
14. Fred Trueman
15. Ray Lindwall
16. Alan Davidson
17. Michael Holding
18. Mike Procter
19. Waqar Younis
20. Shaun Pollock
21. Pat Cummins
22. Andy Roberts
23. Clarrie Grimmett
24. Courtney Walsh
25. Jim Laker
26. Ravi Ashwin
27. Jasprit Bumrah
28. Kagiso Rabada
29. Hedley Verity
30. Lance Gibbs
Top 50 batsmen
1. Don Bradman
2. Sachin Tendulkar
3. Garry Sobers
4. Viv Richards
5. Jack Hobbs
6. Steve Smith
7. Brian Lara
8. Barry Richards
9. Len Hutton
10. Greg Chappell
11. Sunny Gavaskar
12. Wally Hammond
13. Ricky Ponting
14. Jacques Kallis
15. George Headley
16. Allan Border
17. Graeme Pollock
18. Herbert Sutcliffe
19. Kumar Sangakkara
20. Steve Waugh
21. Rahul Dravid
22. Everton Weekes
23. Ken Barrington
24. Javed Miandad
25. Clyde Walcott
26. Dudley Nourse
27. Joe Root
28. Graeme Smith
29. Younis Khan
30. Dudley Nourse
31. Virat Kohli
32. AB de Villiers
33. Neil Harvey
34. Dennis Compton
35. Rohan Kanhai
36. Kane Williamson
37. Gordon Greenidge
38. Martin Crowe
39. Frank Worrell
40. Matthew Hayden
41. Clive Lloyd
42. Peter May
43. Hashim Amla
44. Shivnarine Chanderpaul
45. Inzamam Ul Haq
46. Bobby Simpson
47. Geoffrey Boycott
48. Andy Flower
49. Adam Gilchrist
50. Mahela Jayawardene
Top 50 bowlers
1. Malcolm Marshall
2. Glenn McGrath
3. Richard Hadlee
4. Dale Steyn
5. Shane Warne
6. Muttiah Muralitharan
7. Curtly Ambrose
8. Imran Khan
9. Allan Donald
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Wasim Akram
12. Joel Garner
13. Bill O'Reilly
14. Fred Trueman
15. Ray Lindwall
16. Alan Davidson
17. Michael Holding
18. Mike Procter
19. Waqar Younis
20. Shaun Pollock
21. Pat Cummins
22. Andy Roberts
23. Clarrie Grimmett
24. Courtney Walsh
25. Jim Laker
26. Ravi Ashwin
27. Jasprit Bumrah
28. Kagiso Rabada
29. Hedley Verity
30. Lance Gibbs
kyear2
International Coach
Becuse everyone who's seen Barry bat said he was the best opener they've ever seen, never once seen that written about Boycs.
He was great against WI. Basically the opposite of Botham.
I might go with something like this to strengthen this teams lower order
All Time XI (6)
Virender Sehwag
Geoffrey Boycott
Neil Harvey^
Younis Khan
Clive Lloyd^©
Kapil Dev
Hedley Verity ⁴
Michael Holding ¹
Waqar Younis ³
Victor Ian
International Coach
Why no Grace?
kyear2
International Coach
My cut off is WWI, don't think the game fully evolved to what is is till after the war, probably mid 30's but my absolute cut off is post WW1
Coronis
International Coach
So? He was outperformed by both Glenn Turner and Geoff Boycott in county cricket. Its like people who’ve watched Kobe and LeBron and say Kobe is better lol.
kyear2
International Coach
Yeah, but feel.like you're taking away potentially tour best bolwer, for lower order batting depth.
That's not comparable to me, and not a good trade off. But I see lower order batting differently to most here.
kyear2
International Coach
Don't think there's anyone who's taken seriously that makes that argument. Never seen a list made by a journalist, organisation or decent YouTube page that ranks Kobe higher.
The acclaim for Richards on the other hand is near universal, and that includes every single member here that's seen him play.
I know your affinity for all things stodgy, but no captain on earth would choose Boycs over prime Barry.
Coronis
International Coach
Bit silly of them then. Since Boycott won 4 County Championships whilst Barry could only win one despite playing with Greenidge, Roberts and Marshall.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Since WW1, 13 bowlers have held the record for the most Test wickets. Of these, four (Hadlee, Barnes, Murali and Warne) make capt_Luffy's Top Ten in his list of 125. By contrast, there are five (Bedser, Statham, Gibbs, Dev and Botham) who don't crack his Top 30. These are, IMO, bowlers who are often underrated on this site.
The list of 125 is said to be based on Tests + FC performances.. Given that there are 13 bowlers who have taken 2500 FC wickets or more, with 11 of these averaging under 20, I find it strange that only five make his list with Rhodes the highest ranked at 53.
The list of 125 is said to be based on Tests + FC performances.. Given that there are 13 bowlers who have taken 2500 FC wickets or more, with 11 of these averaging under 20, I find it strange that only five make his list with Rhodes the highest ranked at 53.
Coronis
International Coach
Personally, I find a lot of the time when people mention Test+FC they only have certain specific players in mind.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
The focus was more on Tests really, with FC getting more value for those who couldn't had a prosperous Test careers for circumstances like Barry and WG, not those who flopped at them like Hick and Kippax. For example, Tich Freeman, the 2nd highest FC wicket-taker barely makes it; because he actually played Tests was alright in them and wasn't considered the best English spinner of his time (Verity was). Same reason Charles Parker didn't make despite so many FC wickets. It's quality over quantity for me. Rhodes being low is because playing so many matches as a batsman who can bowl, else he would had been higher.
Thala_0710
State 12th Man
My all time Odi Xi would be:
Rohit
Sachin
Richards
Kohli
ABD
Dhoni
Klusener
Wasim
Garner
McGrath
Murali
Rohit
Sachin
Richards
Kohli
ABD
Dhoni
Klusener
Wasim
Garner
McGrath
Murali