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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
ataraxia
International Coach
That's a great reason to not pick Barrington.
kyear2
International Coach
Or Sutcliffe.
The two batted together and no one ever said he was even comparable to Hobbs, far less challenged him.
ataraxia
International Coach
Peer rating reflects much much less kindly on Barrington than Sutcliffe. You can't just use it for one or the other.
kyear2
International Coach
I'll concede that is true.
But one is making Hutton bat at 3, a position he is horribly ill suited for.
ataraxia
International Coach
How so?
Also Hobbs batting 3 is an equally viable alternative, and one which makes sense in terms of batting position too. I gather that your ATG matches occur in the cricket of the present, 2024, or at least in post-1975 times. The role of an opener about WW1 is much akin to the role of a #3 today – there's been a downward shift in the batting order as to where the best batter bats.
ataraxia
International Coach
Bill Bowes (for clarity a teammate of Sutcliffe, but one of Hutton too): "He [Sutcliffe] was the first to admit that he had not the same ability as Jack Hobbs, Wally Hammond, or Sir Len Hutton, but he had concentration and the will to harness his ability. As a result he was England’s most successful batsman of all time."
kyear2
International Coach
Your number e must have the ability to consolidate or dominate. Button lacked or was reluctant to demonstrate that ability.
Fully agree with the bolded part.
One reason why I question if the openers tax is a real thing or the best batsmen since the war just gravitate to the middle order.
ataraxia
International Coach
So I take it that your England ATG batting lineup is
Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hobbs
Hammond
Root
Pretty formidable tbh.
kyear2
International Coach
Hobbs
Hutton
Hammond
Root
Barrington
No idea
Knott
Trueman
No idea
Changes
It really isn't a good team, hence how Botham gets in.
ataraxia
International Coach
Surely you rate Sutcliffe as better than Barrington?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Botham is loss in this team; as England doesn't have enough batting to make him viable unlike Miller. I can't understand how you think Miller is very bad for Australia yet think Botham makes England, despite being a worse bowler. I have 2 possible English combinations and Botham makes one, but to play him you need Rhodes instead of Laker or Verity like Red did.
Ian Botham is so underrated on here. I guess people just look at his final stats or just consider how he was when he kept playing well past his prime.
Botham's first half of career was definitely ATG level for any team
51 Tests, 2833 runs @ 38.80, 11 hundreds, 231 wkts @ 23 06, 19 x 5Wkts
Botham's first half of career was definitely ATG level for any team
51 Tests, 2833 runs @ 38.80, 11 hundreds, 231 wkts @ 23 06, 19 x 5Wkts
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Top ODI Fast Bowlers of 90s
Top Test Fast Bowlers of 90s
Who is the Greatest Fast Bowler of 90s (Test+ODI) ?
| Wasim Akram (PAK) | 1990-1999 | 195 | 194 | 10226 | 1704.2 | 120 | 6531 | 279 | 5/15 | 23.40 | 3.83 | 36.65 | 13 | 3 |
| Waqar Younis (PAK) | 1990-1999 | 163 | 162 | 8249 | 1374.5 | 89 | 6346 | 275 | 6/26 | 23.07 | 4.61 | 29.99 | 11 | 9 |
| AA Donald (SA) | 1991-1999 | 121 | 120 | 6438 | 1073.0 | 76 | 4336 | 206 | 6/23 | 21.04 | 4.04 | 31.25 | 9 | 2 |
| CEL Ambrose (WI) | 1990-1999 | 135 | 134 | 7128 | 1188.0 | 148 | 4137 | 160 | 5/32 | 25.85 | 3.48 | 44.55 | 3 | 2 |
| GD McGrath (AUS) | 1993-1999 | 101 | 101 | 5449 | 908.1 | 97 | 3645 | 147 | 5/14 | 24.79 | 4.01 | 37.06 | 5 | 3 |
| SM Pollock (SA) | 1996-1999 | 83 | 82 | 4347 | 724.3 | 72 | 2759 | 118 | 6/35 | 23.38 | 3.80 | 36.83 | 4 | 2 |
Top Test Fast Bowlers of 90s
| CEL Ambrose (WI) | 1990-1999 | 71 | 128 | 16148 | 2691.2 | 728 | 6224 | 309 | 8/45 | 20.14 | 2.31 | 52.25 | 13 | 21 |
| Wasim Akram (PAK) | 1990-1999 | 62 | 111 | 14134 | 2355.4 | 529 | 6200 | 289 | 7/119 | 21.45 | 2.63 | 48.90 | 15 | 17 |
| AA Donald (SA) | 1992-1999 | 59 | 105 | 12996 | 2166.0 | 544 | 6200 | 284 | 8/71 | 21.83 | 2.86 | 45.76 | 8 | 19 |
| Waqar Younis (PAK) | 1990-1999 | 56 | 101 | 11179 | 1863.1 | 375 | 5927 | 273 | 7/76 | 21.71 | 3.18 | 40.94 | 18 | 21 |
| GD McGrath (AUS) | 1993-1999 | 58 | 112 | 13956 | 2326.0 | 642 | 6086 | 266 | 8/38 | 22.87 | 2.61 | 52.46 | 12 | 15 |
| SM Pollock (SA) | 1995-1999 | 38 | 67 | 8470 | 1411.4 | 407 | 3294 | 161 | 7/87 | 20.45 | 2.33 | 52.60 | 6 | 10 |
Who is the Greatest Fast Bowler of 90s (Test+ODI) ?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
McGrath
Wasim Akram also it seems now might be better just considering the 90s.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
His first half of career is ATG level, no one disagreed with that. The problem is his second half exists....
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
Victor Ian
International Coach
Has to be waqar. Took shitloads of wickets per game at **** all average at **** all strike rate.
CricketFan90s
State Vice-Captain
He was very dangerous in both formats
bagapath
International Captain
Botham was a matchwinner. And the best bowler in the world for three years when some of the giants were in the business. The then world record 27 fivefers is no joke.