The Ashes are coming home!

[Richard]

Well the last time he bowled at the Aussies he got five wickets... Well thought out might I add.

Due to such wonderful bowling, indeed...
3 wickets with short, wide, out-and-out poor, deliveries; 1 with a straight Yorker and 1 with a good inswinging slower-ball.
He bowled pretty well from his 4th over onwards, sure (and bowled 1 good delivery in his 3rd over) but you'll forgive me for not overracting because of 1 ODI, and I'd not be surprised to see the Australians smash him all over the park for most of the rest of these 6 ODIs.

 

[tooextracool]

1. Hoggard's performances vs Aus barely qualify him as a net bowler. He has been absolutely woeful.

yes in about 3 games.....because that proves so much. and like it or not australia arent the only team in the world.
not to mention of course that lee has been just about as disgraceful against england, and no one has said anything about him.

2. You're correct, they have not criticised Lee. They've been attempting to rubbish McGrath, Gillespie and Kaspa.

so who has called any of those 3 players 'rubbish'?
no, if you have been listening at all, almost everyone has said that they look to be past it, and are all too similar and what not. and even while they've said that they've talked about how good they've been in the past.

3. How could Shane Warne's comments possibly have been interpreted as criticism? If Shane Warne seriously thought that he would not have bothered saying anything.

how in the world is suggesting that someone cant play you not criticism?

4. I implied that ENGLAND WOULD BE WEAKER WITHOUT THORPE (English 101 is down the hall to the left).

err i think most people would consider this to imply that england would be better without thorpe:
"I made the comment that he should be dropped to accommodate Bell and KP because, IMO, until proven otherwise, such a move would weaken England and therefore improve Australia's chances."

 

[tooextracool]

Speed is measured at a point approximately 12 inches from the bowlers' hand.

Pitch conditions are irrelevant.

well if thats the case i still find it a bit odd that bowlers tend to bowl slower in india and pakistan and yet faster in a place like england.

 

[superkingdave]

err i think most people would consider this to imply that england would be better without thorpe:
"I made the comment that he should be dropped to accommodate Bell and KP because, IMO, until proven otherwise, such a move would weaken England and therefore improve Australia's chances."

Well no reading it properly, he's actually saying that he want's Thorpe to be dropped because that weakens England

 

[tooextracool]

Well he caught 83 catches in his Test-career; I'd be interested to get a guesstimate as to how many he dropped.

i'd say about 40 odd.

He was, he was average..

no he was not, he was poor.

Err, sorry?
When did I even say he was poor in them?

because those were the only 3 games you watched, and you didnt think that prasad was a good fielder.

I don't remember it being especially poor, myself - certainly I don't think it affected the series outcome, neither Horne at Lord's or Vettori Cairns at The Oval was missed IIRR.
England's fielding since March 2004 hasn't been faultless, by any stretch, even if it has by-and-large been decent - South Africa totally outclassed them and New Zealand's was below it's usual level. As for West Indies...

no it hasnt been faultness, not many teams have. but the fact is that they took nearly all of them that came their way and took some very difficult chances too. which is significantly better than any english side in the last 15 years.

 

[marc71178]

And remember most people suffer from the normal most-recent-is-best-remembered syndrome.
Almost invariably the more recent stuff will be remembered as best because people like to think their side is improving even when it's not.

So you know more about the sides even though, by your own admission you weren't watching cricket when the first team was playing...

 

[marc71178]

No, I'm not, I'm free to question it, and in the certain event that I can blow open it's flaws, it becomes worthless.

So how come when we blow open the flaws in your theory it doesn't become worthless?

 

[tooextracool]

Well no reading it properly, he's actually saying that he want's Thorpe to be dropped because that weakens England

hmm ok, my mistake, i didnt quite read the last line carefully enough.

 

[tooextracool]

Oh, he bowled within himself for stages in the Third, too.
Equally, there were times he bowled flat-out in both the First and Second, too..

exactly, yet he was recorded as being faster in the 3rd and not in the first 2.

He might, and the chances of that are fairly low.

because you say so?

Why not? It's been developed by people at the top of projectile-timing technology. Occasionally it goes wrong, and it's turned off..

not really, again just because its the top technology it doesnt mean that its always right.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The Ashes are coming home!

We've said that before...

 

[Tom Halsey]

well if thats the case i still find it a bit odd that bowlers tend to bowl slower in india and pakistan and yet faster in a place like england.

Because it's ever so slightly hotter in India? Bowlers do get tired, you know.

 

[tooextracool]

Because it's ever so slightly hotter in India? Bowlers do get tired, you know.

they do eventually. they dont bowl between 80-84 mph for every ball for an entire spell and yet in england get it upto 88-89 in spells in england.

 

[simmy]

Tom, we have said that before but seriously have we looked a better unit in any department as we do now?

Honestly think we'll win... call it gut instinct... call it just hopeless desire...

Australia have NOTHING POSITIVE out of this tour yet... England have had a flawless summer... that has got to show something!

 

[badgerhair]

MA Butcher
MA Atherton
AJ Stewart
N Hussain
GP Thorpe
JP Crawley
MA Ealham
RDB Croft
D Gough
AR Caddick

I'd say so aye. How many of the above team would make it into the current side?
Thorpe is still about of course.

It's cheating to say the current team is stronger when it has eleven players and the 1997 team only has ten. You must have missed out someone totally fogettable, like Mike Smith.

Looking at the other replies in this thread, it seems odd that no-one remembers that Atherton and Trescothick made a successful opening partnership - and yes, I'd pick Atherton ahead of Strauss for the slow(er) opener's position. Obviously Stewart instead of Geraint Jones and Gough rather than Simon Jones, but I don't see a place for Caddick when you have Harmison and Flintoff about. I'd take Hoggard on variety grounds rather than Caddick.

But the main reason why England are a far strnger side now than then is Flintoff, because a genuine all-rounder rather than a bits-and-pieces nonsense like Ealham gives you two players rather than three-quarters of one.

Another major difference is that the 97 side had an excellent slip cordon but nothing else in terms of fielding, whereas now we have excellent slips and some good and very good outfielders. We're a good 40 runs an innings better off than we were then from fielding alone.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[luckyeddie]

Natural comedians, in case you haven't noticed, make people laugh by intention.
And frankly there's absolutely nothing ridiculous about ANYTHING I've said, except things that are obviously (to me) said as a deliberate joke.

(chokes back tears)

 

[luckyeddie]

Tom, we have said that before but seriously have we looked a better unit in any department as we do now?

Honestly think we'll win... call it gut instinct... call it just hopeless desire...

Australia have NOTHING POSITIVE out of this tour yet... England have had a flawless summer... that has got to show something!

The only thing it shows is that Australia have taken nothing positive out of this tour yet and England have had a flawless summer.

 

[social]

Normal programming has been resumed.

I suggest you resurrect this thread next year.

 

[Top_Cat]

they do eventually. they dont bowl between 80-84 mph for every ball for an entire spell and yet in england get it upto 88-89 in spells in england.

Different altitudes and atmospheres affect the speed of the ball, as well as fatigue. Although 12" doesn't sound like a great deal, the ball slows down a bit in that distance and how much it slows down differe in India vs England.

 

[King_Ponting]

Marc are u still sure the english team would much rather face Lee than Kasporwicz???????

 

[luckyeddie]

Marc are u still sure the english team would much rather face Lee than Kasporwicz???????

I know who I'd rather fancy - the journeyman plodder.

<quack> leave McGrath out of this

Lee adds another dimension to the attack - and for me, if he displayed only half the form he showed last night, he would be a certainty to make the test starting line-up. You HAVE to have pace in a side, and he's got plenty of that.

Now, saddled with the responsibility that comes from playing in the limited overs discipline, Lee shows admirable restraint, and is a quite magnificent one-day bowler. If he can transfer just a little of that into the test match arena, the sky's the limit. If, however, he slips the leash - helmets all round (including the square-leg umpire).