The 2nd best?

[chaminda_00]

Judging a team by it's recent performace? Okay

Judging a team's recent performance while it's players are injured? No, you can't do that.
Simply take out all Australian bowlers( assume injuries), and have them play a series or two. They will lose because of injured players not in the line-up and not because they're all of a sudden a bad team.

So you can't say Pakistan have done bad within this or that length of time because results can be different in a reasonably short time frame once everybody is fit.

As i said before Pakistan injury list isn't that much worse then New Zealand or Sri Lanka.

Sri Lanka's injury list:
- Murali
- Nissanka
- Dilhara
- Zoysa

New Zealand
- Vettori
- Bond
- Bulter
- Harris
- Oram
- Styris

If u don't want to judge them on recent performance then what. Cricket is not played on paper and just cus a side looks ok on paper doesn't mean it will preform. Consider all the injuries that all the sides have had u can judge them on current performancs.

 

[Nate]

England in tests followed by India, although it should be remembered that while South Africa haven't looked the part of third best recently, their results as yet haven't been all that bad. They've lost two series recently, but one was away to India and one home to the second placed side, so they probably don't deserve to be shoved too far down the table just yet, especially considering the other contender for number three just drew a series against a fairly modest Pakistan side at home.

A close fourth for me is therefore South Africa, followed by Sri Lanka, Pakistan, New Zealand, West Indies, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

For ODIs as has already been said it's harder to rank sides, since all it takes is one good performance and you can knock off another side. It's generally easier to rank sides in small groups than one by one. I'd say Sri Lanka with Murali are second, about equal with New Zealand. Then you have the likes of Pakistan and India, then the West Indies, South Africa and England, and then Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

a very wise post...

I always love to rank sides, but I think sometimes it is just too close, ESPECIALLY in ODIs.

 

[Nate]

...and Chaminda man! you seem to get smarter with every post, keep it up!

 

[chaminda_00]

...and Chaminda man! you seem to get smarter with every post, keep it up!

I don't think everyone would agree with u there, but thanks

 

[Unattainableguy]

As i said before Pakistan injury list isn't that much worse then New Zealand or Sri Lanka.

Sri Lanka's injury list:
- Murali
- Nissanka
- Dilhara
- Zoysa

New Zealand
- Vettori
- Bond
- Bulter
- Harris
- Oram
- Styris

If u don't want to judge them on recent performance then what. Cricket is not played on paper and just cus a side looks ok on paper doesn't mean it will preform. Consider all the injuries that all the sides have had u can judge them on current performancs.

But then all Pakistani players have injuries lasting for a longer time period than others.
Secondly, it wouldn't hurt to replace those players in your list (except for Murli), whereas, players like Shoaib, Shabbir, Saqlain, Gul are irreplaceable.

 

[Gangster]

The 2nd best test side (sadly) is England. India's 1-1 series against Pakistan shows that they are definitely no better than 3rd.

In terms of ODIs, the 2nd best is clearly Sri Lanka. 3rd best has to be New Zealand. How do all of you nuts think Pakistan is the 2nd best side in ODI cricket? What have they done of note? Let's see, lost the Paktel cup at home, choked in the ICC Champions Trophy, won nothing. The best Pakistan can be is 4th and I wonder if they're not 5th place, as South Africa I think, on recent form, just may be a better ODI team. Then probably India 6th, West Indies 7th and England 8th.

 

[chaminda_00]

But then all Pakistani players have injuries lasting for a longer time period than others.
Secondly, it wouldn't hurt to replace those players in your list (except for Murli), whereas, players like Shoaib, Shabbir, Saqlain, Gul are irreplaceable.

Ok lets get this right for once and for all, Saqlain would not make the side even if he is fully fit, consider Danish a better spin bowler at present can't make the side. Shabbir and Gul in OD cricket are not any better then Zoysa, Dilhara and Nissanka. Dilhara has an excpetion OD record and Zoysa and Nissanka are on par with Gul. Also Sami a better bowler then bowl of them and Rana is on par with both (they can be replaced pretty easierly). When these guys come back from injury they will not walk back into the Pakistan side as they were not regularly in the first place.

Both Bond and Nissanka have been out for longer then any of the Pakistan players, or haven't u noticed that.

 

[Nate]

But then all Pakistani players have injuries lasting for a longer time period than others.

whoa, sucks to be them!

Shoaib: Doctor, my ankle is all better now, I can run around and everything!
Doctor: Thats excellent Shoaib... hang on, aren`t you Pakistani?
Shoaib: Why yes, doctor, why do you a...
Doctor: (cuts in) Well then, looks like you should take it easy son, get some rest for the next, say, two months.
Shoaib: But I`m...
Doctor (again, cutting in) I said get some rest!

 

[Nate]

I don't think evryone would agree with u there...

Everyone never will.

 

[Blaze]

The 2nd best test side (sadly) is England. India's 1-1 series against Pakistan shows that they are definitely no better than 3rd.

In terms of ODIs, the 2nd best is clearly Sri Lanka. 3rd best has to be New Zealand. How do all of you nuts think Pakistan is the 2nd best side in ODI cricket? What have they done of note? Let's see, lost the Paktel cup at home, choked in the ICC Champions Trophy, won nothing. The best Pakistan can be is 4th and I wonder if they're not 5th place, as South Africa I think, on recent form, just may be a better ODI team. Then probably India 6th, West Indies 7th and England 8th.

How are Sri Lanka clearly 2nd?

IMO Sri Lanka and NZ are equal 2nd

 

[Unattainableguy]

whoa, sucks to be them!

Shoaib: Doctor, my ankle is all better now, I can run around and everything!
Doctor: Thats excellent Shoaib... hang on, aren`t you Pakistani?
Shoaib: Why yes, doctor, why do you a...
Doctor: (cuts in) Well then, looks like you should take it easy son, get some rest for the next, say, two months.
Shoaib: But I`m...
Doctor (again, cutting in) I said get some rest!

lol, funny.

 

[Deja moo]

Whats with all these injury excuses? India had Zaheer injured for most of the last One day season, and the matches he did play, he was half-fit. Balaji missed almost the entire season with a pelvic injury. Harbhajan had his surgery, and Sachin spent most of the time out with a tennis elbow or playing in spite of it. Do you see us offering these as excuses for the teams poor performance in the last season ?
Teams are supposed to make up by blooding new players, and if they're not upto scratch, you have only yourselves to blame. Reminds me of tec's skewed logic when comparing Indias and Australias injury problems on the 2003-04 tour.

 

[marc71178]

Except from those 2, are there any other bowlers from both teams as good as other Pakistani ones?

Vaas?
Cairns.

And Jayasuriya is easily the equal of Afridi.

 

[marc71178]

Last time i checked we won the Paket Cup in Pakistan, outside Sri Lanka isn't it.

SL outside SL since April 2003:

9 wins and 5 losses.

That looks good until you consider that 7 of those games were against ZImbabwe.

 

[Nate]

SL outside SL since April 2003:

9 wins and 5 losses.

That looks good until you consider that 7 of those games were against ZImbabwe.

Crap! That is quite an amazing stat.

 

[Unattainableguy]

Vaas?
Cairns.

And Jayasuriya is easily the equal of Afridi.

Vaas: I agree with that.
Cairns: No, he is as good as Abdul Razzaq. No more.
Jayasuriya: I don't even think he gets to bowl as many overs as Afridi. And if he does, then it's because of Sri Lankan bowling being weaker than Pakistani; and therefore, appreciating such bowler.

 

[marc71178]

Jayasuriya basically bowls his stint most games.

 

[Gangster]

How are Sri Lanka clearly 2nd?

IMO Sri Lanka and NZ are equal 2nd

Fine, like in tests where the argument is England or India for 2nd, the argument is Sri Lanka or New Zealand for 2nd in ODIs. Pakistan shouldn't be in the picture, they are battling for 4th with South Africa.

 

[Unattainableguy]

SL outside SL since April 2003:

9 wins and 5 losses.

That looks good until you consider that 7 of those games were against ZImbabwe.

And that validates my point where I was comparing SL's and Pak's results away from home when I said SL had played more games with minnows and yet had a worse record.

 

[chaminda_00]

And that validates my point where I was comparing SL's and Pak's results away from home when I said SL had played more games with minnows and yet had a worse record.

Last time i checked Pakistan played 7 games away from home aganist minnows too (during the same time), so it not like u guys don't play games aganist minnows as well.