that Virat Kohli

[honestbharani]

Yeah, now that I think about it, I think Kapil for Imran will actually make the side I Posted above stronger.

 

[vcs]

Flintoff and Klusener are close enough skill-wise so you have to account for the fact that the latter's peak came in the World Cup, whereas for Flintoff, the Champions Trophy 2004 was probably his defining ODI moment.

 

[kiwiviktor81]

I'd be seriously tempted to go with something like this in ODIs

1. McCullum
2. Gilchrist
3. Richards
4. ABDV
5. Flintoff
6. CJ Anderson
7. Afridi
8. Dev
9. Akram
10. Garner
11. Murali

for the simple reason that if neither team is bowled out, the highest SR wins.

Would be tremendously interesting seeing this team play a more conventional ATG side that had its Bevans, Pontings, Laras and so on. Would be fireworks in any case.

 

[Pratters]

I'd be seriously tempted to go with something like this in ODIs

1. McCullum
2. Gilchrist
3. Richards
4. ABDV
5. Flintoff
6. CJ Anderson
7. Afridi
8. Dev
9. Akram
10. Garner
11. Murali

for the simple reason that if neither team is bowled out, the highest SR wins.

Would be tremendously interesting seeing this team play a more conventional ATG side that had its Bevans, Pontings, Laras and so on. Would be fireworks in any case.

A team like that can score 400 but be all out for 250 as well. This is why highest strike rates logic never works.

 

[indiaholic]

kiwivictor is the best..

 

[vcs]

I'd be seriously tempted to go with something like this in ODIs

1. McCullum
2. Gilchrist
3. Richards
4. ABDV
5. Flintoff
6. CJ Anderson
7. Afridi
8. Dev
9. Akram
10. Garner
11. Murali

for the simple reason that if neither team is bowled out, the highest SR wins.

Would be tremendously interesting seeing this team play a more conventional ATG side that had its Bevans, Pontings, Laras and so on. Would be fireworks in any case.

If Viv and AB got out cheaply, who would you trust to build a fighting score on a spicy track (against a team with ATG bowling quality)? If you want to go through with your theory, you might have as well replaced Garner and Murali with Hadlee and Jayasuriya so that everyone in that lineup can bat.

 

[Daemon]

I'd be seriously tempted to go with something like this in ODIs

1. McCullum
2. Gilchrist
3. Richards
4. ABDV
5. Flintoff
6. CJ Anderson
7. Afridi
8. Dev
9. Akram
10. Garner
11. Murali

for the simple reason that if neither team is bowled out, the highest SR wins.

Would be tremendously interesting seeing this team play a more conventional ATG side that had its Bevans, Pontings, Laras and so on. Would be fireworks in any case.

What's your logic behind picking 6 guys who can bowl 10 overs + Anderson on top of that?

 

[harsh.ag]

What's your logic behind picking 6 guys who can bowl 10 overs + Anderson on top of that?

Think he went for the highest SRs

 

[kiwiviktor81]

What's your logic behind picking 6 guys who can bowl 10 overs + Anderson on top of that?

I'd never bowl Anderson. Also I want two spinners and four seamers for the sake of maximum adaptability. Murali is obviously the default spinner and Afridi's legspin would give me good enough variation on a turning or slow wicket.

If not a turning wicket, Murali, Flintoff, Akram, Garner and Dev are all horrendously difficult to get away so even if my team got bowled out for 250 off 35 overs they would still have a shout of defending it.

 

[Daemon]

Think he went for the highest SRs

What's Flintoff doing there then

 

[kiwiviktor81]

Think he went for the highest SRs

This strategy is "Strike Rate Max". The idea is that even if we're bowled out before the 50 we might have enough runs on the board to strangle the other team with super economical bowlers.

It could be:

Kiwiviktor XI 295/10 (36.4 ovs)
CW Conventional Wisdom XI 280/5 (50 ovs.) Bevan 45* (75)

Hadlee unlucky to miss out on this team.

 

[Daemon]

 

[kiwiviktor81]

What's Flintoff doing there then

Flintoff struck at 24 sixes per 1,000 balls in ODIs. He's there to try and hit sixes after Richards and ABDV have set a platform.

 

[Daemon]

A lot of your 'super economical bowlers' are also part of the conventional XI, so what makes you think you'll get 295 in 35 in the first place

 

[Anil]

He wasn't the most consistent, but invariably was the man for the big occasion. His record in big ODI finals etc. was outstanding. Dhoni is better overall in ODIs, but not by such a huge margin.

not comparing drone and gilchrist here...i am just trying to debunk the myth/perception that gilchrist was a great one day opener...he just wasn't...i know that he sometimes came good in finals (mostly after failing completely in the earlier stages), is that the criteria for greatness then? there are so many greater one day openers...mark waugh, matt hayden, saurav ganguly, saeed anwar, des haynes, virender sehwag and probably others that i am forgetting right now...these guys are all big occasion players, all capable of scoring at a frenetic pace and at a significantly more consistent rate than gilchrist...

 

[Pratters]

Flintoff's a better bowler, yes. But Klusener was quicker to get off the blocks while batting, and at number 7 that's more important.

Klusener took 130 wickets in 97 games at 26 and then tailed off after 2000. But he was really good on song and terrific peak.

The only one who I would consider replacing him at number 7 with is Kapil. Better bowler, big hitter, quick off the blocks, good fielder. Just not as consistent with the bat.

Imran didn't score quickly enough for the all time number 7 spot. Symonds is good but lacks bowling chops compared to Klusener and Kapil.

Symonds isn't being talked about to replace Klusener. Klusener was a terrific hitter and I would have no problem playing him as long as we had some one else who can complete the 10 overs with him. You talk about before 1999 but he only had two good ODI bowling years, 1999 and 1997. In 1998 he took wickets @ 40 each. 2000-2004, he tailed off, as you say. Would I bank on him to complete ten overs? Not at all.

My ODI team would look some thing like this:

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Lara
Viv Richards
Bevan
Symonds
Klusener
Imran (c)
Wasim
Warne
Garner

I would pick Gilchrist over Dhoni as Bevan is a terrific finisher as well. Meanwhile, Gilchrist was absolutely devastating as an opener. Symonds averages nearly 40 at a strike rate of 92 and can bowl a bit. Klusener, Symonds, Viv and Tendulkar would handle the fifth bowler's job efficiently. With Symonds and Klusener down there, there is enough fire power. They bat deep down as well and can chase any score they have to. Warne was superb in crucial games in world cups and we shouldn't forget him as an ODI player. If any one can lead such a side, it's Imran.

PS - I find it surprising that I ended up having no players from the last few years in there. Find that interesting. AB Devilliers just missed out as I had to find room for Symonds in there for balance.

 

[Anil]

well that's a different question entirely. You're saying an "ATG XI" should be just the "best" XI players, rather than the team that's going to win the most games.

this is all hypothetical...so what is your justification that a team of the best ever players won't win the most games?

 

[kiwiviktor81]

A lot of your 'super economical bowlers' are also part of the conventional XI, so what makes you think you'll get 295 in 35 in the first place

Nah most people overlook Garner for some reason.

The alternative is to go for a high bowling SR in terms of balls per wicket. Then I'd have

7. Afridi
8. Starc
9. Bond
10. Younis
11. Murali

Which would also be interesting

 

[Anil]

Nah most people overlook Garner for some reason.

not people who know the history of one day cricket...he is legitimately in contention for being the greatest one day bowler of all time...

 

[Pratters]

not comparing drone and gilchrist here...i am just trying to debunk the myth/perception that gilchrist was a great one day opener...he just wasn't...i know that he sometimes came good in finals (mostly after failing completely in the earlier stages), is that the criteria for greatness then? there are so many greater one day openers...mark waugh, matt hayden, saurav ganguly, saeed anwar, des haynes, virender sehwag and probably others that i am forgetting right now...these guys are all big occasion players, all capable of scoring at a frenetic pace and at a significantly more consistent rate than gilchrist...

Gilchrist scored at a strike rate of nearly 97. His average is 36 or so (which is fine in 90s context). However, the strike rate meant that when he got going, the opposition faced a tough start. As a comparison to similarly aggressive players, Jayasuriya averaged 32 and most other if not all other players you mention had strike rates in the region of 80s, some below 80 too. Gilchrist was special. Regarding consistency, he scored 50 or more 81 times in 268 completed innings. I'll take that.