Test only batsmen

[Eclipse]

Neither is Strauss or Vaughan. And I thought you enjoyed England's random selection policy with no regard for county performances.

What exactly has Vaughan proven in ODI's?

 

[badgerhair]

And the thing that annoy's me is that Flintoff didn't start of that great, and got chance after chance purely on "potential", yet somebody like Ed Smith is flicked after three Tests.

And unfortunatly his career is probbaly over

Are you in love with Ed Smith or something? What's it it to you if a mediocre player who's had a purple patch in English domestic cricket gets picked, shows he's not up to it, gets taken on an A tour to India and demonstrates again that he's not up to it, never plays for England again?

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Craig]

Are you in love with Ed Smith or something?

Dont patronise me mate.

But can you justify why Flintoff got plenty of chance's at the start of his Test career when he wasn't doing that well?

 

[a massive zebra]

Are you in love with Ed Smith or something? What's it it to you if a mediocre player who's had a purple patch in English domestic cricket gets picked, shows he's not up to it, gets taken on an A tour to India and demonstrates again that he's not up to it, never plays for England again?

Cheers,

Mike

But Flintoff showed that he was a mediocre player that was not up to it time and time again before he actually found some form. I very much doubt it would take Smith that long to find his feet.

 

[a massive zebra]

What exactly has Vaughan proven in ODI's?

Not a lot but he keeps getting picked and Marc was using Butchers poor domestic OD record as the reason why England don't pick him. On that basis Vaughan or Strauss should not get picked either.

 

[Gaijin-san]

Look at Richardson's ODI Strike Rate, its pretty poor compared with other NZ players. It would never get you in the NZ ODI side (and he is an opener).

Infact Glenn McGrath has a better ODI bating strike rate than Richardson (49.47).

I really don't have any patience for people with such miniscule analytical ability. You completely missed what I was saying. I wasn't talking at all about strike rates or averages, I was only talking about the way you pigeon-holed Richardson based on a small sample.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Cutting the sample of players debuting since 1990 with FC averages above 30 down to those who played ten tests or more, we only get 14 players.

N Hussain, AJ Stewart, CC Lewis, GA Hick, MR Ramprakash, GP Thorpe, SJ Rhodes, C White, JP Crawley, NV Knight, MA Butcher, A Flintoff, MP Vaughan and ME Trescothick.

Our PMCC is... 0.226
And R-squared is... 5.12%

So, no, there's even less of a correlation when we make it extended careers.

If we take the retired players (Hussain, Stewart, Lewis) out of the equation.. then we're left with 0.0981 and a massive 0.96%.

Make of that what you will.

It's all gone quiet.

The same analysis for Australians gives 2.57% and for Kiwis 12.23%

 

[marc71178]

What exactly has Vaughan proven in ODI's?

His record isn't as bad as people think - and his more recent form is improving.

 

[marc71178]

And the thing that annoy's me is that Flintoff didn't start of that great, and got chance after chance purely on "potential", yet somebody like Ed Smith is flicked after three Tests.

Flintoff's performance in SA (his second series) was actually not that bad.

He also stayed in the team as there weren't exactly any other options.

Smith however was battling against proven quality players and hadn't really shown a lot of form over a long time...

 

[Prince EWS]

But he hasn't had a chance to show what he has at this level yet.

Neither have I. So by your logic, I should be getting a game.

 

[chicane]

Neither have I. So by your logic, I should be getting a game.

That is so dumb.....He's a sucessful test level batsman, you probably can't put bat to ball.

 

[badgerhair]

But Flintoff showed that he was a mediocre player that was not up to it time and time again before he actually found some form. I very much doubt it would take Smith that long to find his feet.

No, people would have been clamouring for him to be dropped long before that, since he would be unlikely ever to "find his feet" in Test cricket - except in so far as they kept getting hit by bowlers justifiably appealing for lbw.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Prince EWS]

That is so dumb.....He's a sucessful test level batsman, you probably can't put bat to ball.

He didnt give the fact that he is a successful test level batsman as a reason.

His reason was that he hadnt been tried.

If he said his reason was that Butcher was a successful test level, I would have accepted that.

And you have never seen me bat, so you cant comment.

 

[Craig]

Flintoff's performance in SA (his second series) was actually not that bad.

He also stayed in the team as there weren't exactly any other options.

Craig White? Dominic Cork?

 

[marc71178]

Craig White? Dominic Cork?

Like I said, there was no alternative...

 

[Prince EWS]

Like I said, there was no alternative...

Like Craig said, Craig White and Dominic Cork.

White in particular. He was 10 times the player Flintoff is.

 

[luckyeddie]

Like Craig said, Craig White and Dominic Cork.

White in particular. He was 10 times the player Flintoff is.

Time to have a 'nutter of the day' award.

 

[marc71178]

He was 10 times the player Flintoff is? I don't think so - Flintoff is one of the top all rounders around at the moment, White never got close to the level of performance that he's showing at the moment.

Cork was never a good enough batsman to be classed an all-rounder, and White was never good enough at either discipline.

 

[Prince EWS]

Perhaps Im a liitle biased........

But honestly, Flintoff is a great one day player, but I dont think he came close to White in tests.

Whites bowling is obviously better (dont you dare dispute this). As batting is concerned Flintoff is just a belter, who is currently in good form, so its paying off. White wasnt the best batsman by any means, but he was a smart batsman, and scored many more runs than his ability dictated.

 

[Craig]

White was never good enough at either discipline.

Well he could cut the ball, swing it, and get reverse swing.

I actually I believe his performances in the 02/03 Ashes got better after the 2nd or 3rd Test.