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Test Cricket - Information
- Thread starter Stefano
- Start date
Magrat Garlick
Rather Mad Witch
Pervez SajjadRichard said:
Iqbal Qasim
Intikhab Alam
Nasim-ul-Ghani
Not bad for a 20-year-period...
As for "blurring the two games into one": they're both cricket, after all. Yes, there's differences in approach and style of play, but he asked for Pakistan's best cricketers, and I replied with what I thought were their three best - in both forms.
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C_C
International Captain
Good Pakistani spinners:
Abdul Qadir
Saqlain Mushtaq
Mushtaq Ahmed
Iqbal Qasim
All four of them, particularly Qadir, are good enough to compete with practically any spinner in history of cricket barring the creme de la creme level of Warne-Murali-Bedi-Chandra-Gibbs-etc.
Abdul Qadir
Saqlain Mushtaq
Mushtaq Ahmed
Iqbal Qasim
All four of them, particularly Qadir, are good enough to compete with practically any spinner in history of cricket barring the creme de la creme level of Warne-Murali-Bedi-Chandra-Gibbs-etc.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Apart from Iqbal Qasim I hardly see how any of them are worthy of mention.Samuel_Vimes said:
But you can't do that - different cricketers are different in different forms. The two games are not to be confused. Yes, they're both cricket, and yes, Inzamam-Ul-Haq happens to be Pakistan's best batsman in Tests and their best batsman in ODIs. But for the most part you've got to treat them separately.
And in ODIs, Youhana is good. In Tests, he's a bit above average.
C_C
International Captain
Did you attend your remedial English classes yet ?
Read carefully. I said that Qadir and most of that lot i named are fit to compete with any spinner in history of cricket barring the absolute best ones .
As per fit to play or not, it is irrelevant as to how good you are empirically. Inorder to be 'fit to play', you have to be amongst the top 4-5 bowlers of your time for your team.
A bowler like Kasprowicz is 'fit to play' in the current era, for his team. The same bowler is 'unfit to play' if juxtaposed in the 1975-1990 period for West Indies.
A batsman like Larry Gomes was 'fit to play' in his era for his team. Juxtapose him with the current OZ crop and he is most likely 'unfit to play'.
Magrat Garlick
Rather Mad Witch
We're going round in circles.Richard said:
Magrat Garlick
Rather Mad Witch
Sajjad's 59 Test wickets @ 23.87 is so awful, isn't it, especially in an era where everyone played for draws.Richard said:
Intikhab Alam got 47 Tests for Pakistan, suffered from homesickness like they all did (including Qadir), but ended up with a reasonable record, and 5 5-wicket-hauls.
Nasim-ul-Ghami was perhaps stretching it a little bit.
Magrat Garlick
Rather Mad Witch
How many players played more than 20 Tests for Pakistan in the 60s and 70s? Test frequency in those days wasn't that big...Richard said:
C_C
International Captain
If you can't do your homework, then i suggest you shut it.
SHOW ME!
You play your best players. Period.
If you do too much tinkering ( why stop at playing a better overseas player away from home ? why not rotate players based on grounds-replace tendulkar with a newbie on a ground tendy doesnt have a good track record, replace Malcolm Marshall with a newbie on a ground Marshall doesnt do too well etc etc), then you damage more than you gain- a team being gelled and settled is a HUGE thing in the cerebral aspects of cricket and you don't wanna ruin that by consistently unseating players.
Swervy
International Captain
Abdul Qadir..straight up the second best leggy I have ever seen...and on his day as lethal a bowler as you will see, given the right conditions.
The trouble with the era Qadir played in was that pitches tended to favour fast bowlers much much more than they do now....its pretty much why there were hardly any spinners back then who made a mark on the game consistantly.
When pakistan came over here in 87, it was a very wet summer, Qadir struggled to take any wickets until later in the series(Warne and Murali would have struggled as well), when on a great batting wicket, he completely baffled the English batsmen...really brilliant bowling
Richard, if you watch him bowl, you will see it is plain old ignorance to imply he was barely fit to play test cricket.
The trouble with the era Qadir played in was that pitches tended to favour fast bowlers much much more than they do now....its pretty much why there were hardly any spinners back then who made a mark on the game consistantly.
When pakistan came over here in 87, it was a very wet summer, Qadir struggled to take any wickets until later in the series(Warne and Murali would have struggled as well), when on a great batting wicket, he completely baffled the English batsmen...really brilliant bowling
Richard, if you watch him bowl, you will see it is plain old ignorance to imply he was barely fit to play test cricket.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Warne and Murali would have struggled? When Warne and Murali have never, ever struggled against England (other than the odd Test where they were afflicted by injury)? Sorry, I think not.
I've seen Abdul Qadir bowl plenty and it completely baffles me why he was so ineffectual away from home, because he sure as hell could turn it a mile. But the fact is, he was.
I've seen Abdul Qadir bowl plenty and it completely baffles me why he was so ineffectual away from home, because he sure as hell could turn it a mile. But the fact is, he was.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
And I suggest I don't need to, being so obvious as it is.C_C said:
Why stop there? Because it's a simple divide. There's lots of cricket been played, and a very definate pattern has been established. Success and failure on single grounds is very rarely down to anything other than coincidence. Based on that you might as well pick 11 batsmen when playing at Antigua, because you can play as many bowlers as you want and you ain't got a cat-in-hell's-chance of forcing a result.
But still - yes, there are very rare occasions when you'd consider picking teams based on a very reliable stereotype of pitch - such as Headingley.
C_C
International Captain
Like i said, put up or shut up.
Show me 4-5 Pakistani bowlers through the 80s who were superior to Qadir and active.
If you cannot, you have no case in stating that Qadir wasn't good enough to play for Pakistan overseas.
That pattern was consistent with every spinner in the 80s.
And Qadir was by far the best of the lot in the whole planet.
His only competition in the 80s came from his own compatriot Iqbal Qasim and for a brief while from Dileep Doshi.
tooextracool
International Coach
murali averaged a whole 37 the last time he played in england.Richard said:
