Steve Smith vs Brian Lara

[Slifer]

Yeah. His 226 and 132 in Australia were both in dead rubber tests along with his 400 and 375.

You're better than this. Lara also scored 221 and 130 in the last test vs SL in 2001 but let's not pretend like he didn't make runs throughout the series. The average series Lara played was around 3 tests in length (131 ÷39): Lara average 42, 53 and 61 in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tests of those series. Perfectly acceptable.

And Lara didn't get to bash minnows like several of his contemporaries. His greatest innings all came in live rubbers: 213, 153*, 277, 182, 202, etc. Let's not pretend like McWarne , Flintoff and co etc stopped trying to win or bowled any worse just because the series was over.

 

[J_C]

Yeah. His 226 and 132 in Australia were both in dead rubber tests along with his 400 and 375.

Top score against McWarne : Dead rubber
Top score against Murali : Dead rubber
Top score against Bond : Dead rubber
Both World Record Scores : Dead rubbers
Average in Dead rubbers: 78+
Average against India where he didn't play a single Dead rubber : 34+

 

[subshakerz]

You're better than this. Lara also scored 221 and 130 in the last test vs SL in 2001 but let's not pretend like he didn't make runs throughout the series. The average series Lara played was around 3 tests in length (131 ÷39): Lara average 42, 53 and 61 in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tests of those series. Perfectly acceptable.

I know, I know, I was ribbing on that one bro. Dont worry.

 

[J_C]

Still far better than minnow bashing BD and Zim.

I think Tendulkar still averages 51+ if one removes BANG/ZIM.

Lara's Average in live Tests is probably below Chanderpaul's .

 

[subshakerz]

Top score against McWarne : Dead rubber
Top score against Murali : Dead rubber
Top score against Bond : Dead rubber
Both World Record Scores : Dead rubbers
Average in Dead rubbers: 78+
Average against India where he didn't play a single Dead rubber : 34+

Yeah but he scored plenty of top knocks in non-dead rubbers so we can just consider it somewhat of a statistical anomaly. I mean, he played 18 dead rubber tests so its not significant enough to matter.

 

[J_C]

Yeah but he scored plenty of top knocks in non-dead rubbers so we can just consider it somewhat of a statistical anomaly. I mean, he played 18 dead rubber tests so its not significant enough to matter.

He does but overall he is waaay more prolific in dead rubbers than in Live Tests. I would generally prefer players who do better in Live Tests .

 

[Slifer]

I know, I know, I was ribbing on that one bro. Dont worry.

Phew!!!

 

[Slifer]

He does but overall he is waaay more prolific in dead rubbers than in Live Tests. I would generally prefer players who do better in Live Tests .

Bro, the man's best work came in live tests wtf are you talking about? All 4 tests in '99 vs Aus, '95 in Eng, 277 vs Aus, etc. Take any of those out, and WI lose the series.

And let's not forget that Lara scored the highest proportion of his teams runs in cricket history (after Bradman and Headley) just to give an idea of the type of scrubs he was batting with. If Lara really wanted to boost his stats, he'd have not tried to protect the tail (see Chanderpaul) and tried to remain not out. 6 not outs in a 131 test career is insane.

 

[J_C]

Bro, the man's best work came in live tests wtf are you talking about? All 4 tests in '99 vs Aus, '95 in Eng, 277 vs Aus, etc. Take any of those out, and WI lose the series.

And let's not forget that Lara scored the highest proportion of his teams runs in cricket history (after Bradman and Headley) just to give an idea of the type of scrubs he was batting with. If Lara really wanted to boost his stats, he'd have not tried to protect the tail (see Chanderpaul) and tried to remain not out. 6 not outs in a 131 test career is insane.

Bro, Lara being way more prolific in dead rubbers than in Live Tests is backed up by stats ( averaged 78+ in dead rubbers compared to 48+ in live Tests). If you think the numbers are incorrect, feel free to share the correct numbers .

Obviously this doesn't mean that he didn't play some exceptional knocks in Live Tests but overall he did score a disproportionate amount of runs in dead rubbers. Batsmen get a lot of stick all the time for cashing in against weakened attacks or minnows. I don't see a problem in highlighting that Lara cashed in quite a bit in dead rubbers.

 

[Slifer]

Bro, Lara being way more prolific in dead rubbers than in Live Tests is backed up by stats ( averaged 78+ in dead rubbers compared to 48+ in live Tests). If you think the numbers are incorrect, feel free to share the correct numbers .

Obviously this doesn't mean that he didn't play some exceptional knocks in Live Tests but overall he did score a disproportionate amount of runs in dead rubbers. Batsmen get a lot of stick all the time for cashing in against weakened attacks or minnows. I don't see a problem in highlighting that Lara cashed in quite a bit in dead rubbers.

It's a problem if you're trying to make a point that it takes away from his all time greatness....

 

[subshakerz]

Bro, Lara being way more prolific in dead rubbers than in Live Tests is backed up by stats ( averaged 78+ in dead rubbers compared to 48+ in live Tests). If you think the numbers are incorrect, feel free to share the correct numbers .

Lets be honest, he averages 78 because of those two 400 and 375 knocks, which both happened to be on featherbeds that allowed those innings to happen. Take those out and his dead rubber record probably resembles his ordinary record.

 

[kyear2]

You're better than this. Lara also scored 221 and 130 in the last test vs SL in 2001 but let's not pretend like he didn't make runs throughout the series. The average series Lara played was around 3 tests in length (131 ÷39): Lara average 42, 53 and 61 in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tests of those series. Perfectly acceptable.

And Lara didn't get to bash minnows like several of his contemporaries. His greatest innings all came in live rubbers: 213, 153*, 277, 182, 202, etc. Let's not pretend like McWarne , Flintoff and co etc stopped trying to win or bowled any worse just because the series was over.

No, no he's not, lol.

 

[kyear2]

Bro, Lara being way more prolific in dead rubbers than in Live Tests is backed up by stats ( averaged 78+ in dead rubbers compared to 48+ in live Tests). If you think the numbers are incorrect, feel free to share the correct numbers .

Obviously this doesn't mean that he didn't play some exceptional knocks in Live Tests but overall he did score a disproportionate amount of runs in dead rubbers. Batsmen get a lot of stick all the time for cashing in against weakened attacks or minnows. I don't see a problem in highlighting that Lara cashed in quite a bit in dead rubbers.

Were the bowling attacks any worse? Sis they switch out the attacks for the last tests? Struggling to see how this is comparable to cashing in on minnows.

 

[Slifer]

Were the bowling attacks any worse? Sis they switch out the attacks for the last tests? Struggling to see how this is comparable to cashing in on minnows.

Precisely. And they also miss out on the fact as I've beaten to death, that Lara's average more than anything else owes a lot to having very few not outs. Without looking, he has the least number of not outs for any batsman who's played over 100 tests. He didn't stat pad, because if he wanted to he could've easily gone the not out route...

 

[kyear2]

Precisely. And they also miss out on the fact as I've beaten to death, that Lara's average more than anything else owes a lot to having very few not outs. Without looking, he has the least number of not outs for any batsman who's played over 100 tests. He didn't stat pad, because if he wanted to he could've easily gone the not out route...

Yeah, the no minnows, refusing to stat pad and the garbage teams he carried the most of his career are all contributors to that. But context only goes some ways.

For anyone who's ever watched him, best batsman I've seen in my life. The genius was undeniable.

 

[Coronis]

Yeah, the no minnows, refusing to stat pad and the garbage teams he carried the most of his career are all contributors to that. But context only goes some ways.

For anyone who's ever watched him, best batsman I've seen in my life. The genius was undeniable.

Yeah that 400 was definitely not a stat pad or selfish.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah that 400 was definitely not a stat pad or selfish.

I've argued about this before.

Him regaining the world record meant more to the fans of the region than anything else at the point. We were not a good team and that would have been a lasting legacy.

Padding, who knows. Selfish, I greatly disagree. Everyone was rooting for him to get the record back.

 

[Slifer]

Yeah that 400 was definitely not a stat pad or selfish.

Yeah one not out innings of the grand total of 6 he had in a 131 test career. Imagine if Lara really wanted to stat pad....

 

[Slifer]

I've argued about this before.

Him regaining the world record meant more to the fans of the region than anything else at the point. We were not a good team and that would have been a lasting legacy.

Padding, who knows. Selfish, I greatly disagree. Everyone was rooting for him to get the record back.

The 400 probably was a lil selfish but stat padding, hell to the know. I remember when Lara went to SL in '01, his average was under 50 at the time and Lara’s stated goal was to get it back above 50. Lara scored 688 runs in 3 tests with zero not outs and scored a record 42% of total team runs against a rampaging Murali and Vaas. His 178, 221 and 130 all could've easily been not out innings to boost his stats; nope Lara tried to make as many runs as possible to help his team and to boost his average. He did it the hard way!!!

 

[kyear2]

The 400 probably was a lil selfish but stat padding, hell to the know. I remember when Lara went to SL in '01, his average was under 50 at the time and Lara’s stated goal was to get it back above 50. Lara scored 688 runs in 3 tests with zero not outs and scored a record 42% of total team runs against a rampaging Murali and Vaas. His 178, 221 and 130 all could've easily been not out innings to boost his stats; nope Lara tried to make as many runs as possible to help his team and to boost his average. He did it the hard way!!!

Yeah, we can agree to disagree. This is someone as you said refused to Chanderpaul his entire career.