Johan
International Regular
well duh, everyone knows he's top 15
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Steve Smith vs Brian Lara
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Gavaskar overall away isn't that impressive when you go through it. You remember I consider Miandad marginally better away.
Johan
International Regular
I think if WI lost games to NZ in that timeframe due to Sobers not performing I'll have it as the sole caveat in sober's record.
DrWolverine
State Vice-Captain
Sunil Gavaskar(an opener) averaging 38 against England is bad
Gary Sobers(who played mostly at number 6) averaging a weak NewZealand is okay
Kya logic
Gary Sobers(who played mostly at number 6) averaging a weak NewZealand is okay
Kya logic
sayon basak
International Captain
Who said it's okay?
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Of course he is great. These are minor flaws.
DrWolverine
State Vice-Captain
Johan
International Regular
First match is in 1956 when Sobers was a bowling all rounder
second game is unfortunate but it was a very low scoring game and Sobers in second inning did save the team from being all out under 100.
71 series is also literally just 5 draws but Sobers has a quality knock there in form of 142.
DrWolverine
State Vice-Captain
The person who said averaging 23 against a weak team is not a flaw but averaging 38 against a stronger team a hole.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
It gets silly then if you don't rate Miandad above Gavaskar overall, as he has a better home record.
DrWolverine
State Vice-Captain
It’s natural to expect a great batsman to score against the weak teams especially when the sample size is 12 Tests
Coronis
International Coach
I think I’ll give him a pass on his initial tour of NZ when he was 19 similar to say, not judging Tendulkar’s teenage numbers too harshly.
Still, not including that he has two series and 8 matches, averaging 26.91 and 37.23.
He came into both series very much in form.
His 142 was on quite an easy pitch for batting, and he was also dropped on an easy chance apparently. Also, its a single innings out of 13. In the other 12 combined he scored 179. All in all I’d consider his record vs NZ a bit like Kohli’s series against NZ and Australia this year so far.
It is definitely a hole in his record. However much anyone wants to consider it in their rating of his batting is up to them, but denying that it exists is pure foolishness.
Still, not including that he has two series and 8 matches, averaging 26.91 and 37.23.
He came into both series very much in form.
His 142 was on quite an easy pitch for batting, and he was also dropped on an easy chance apparently. Also, its a single innings out of 13. In the other 12 combined he scored 179. All in all I’d consider his record vs NZ a bit like Kohli’s series against NZ and Australia this year so far.
It is definitely a hole in his record. However much anyone wants to consider it in their rating of his batting is up to them, but denying that it exists is pure foolishness.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Miandad has a more padded home record and IMO Gavaskar has more impressive home achievements. And it's not like Miandad has a notably better away record, just arguably slightly better.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
And you know I consider that a bat **** take.....
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Can we really call just a 3 match away series a hole?? He did a fine 72 against Hadlee in the previous series, absent hurt in the last innings. That was him about par vs Hadlee. And he did pretty good at home. I will call just judging a 3 match series a stretch really, that's the same reason I don't consider Richards' NZ record a hole.
England is slightly below par for his quality, but definitely not of the level I will call a 'hole'. An ATG series and 41 overall average is good by any standards. His home record vs them is a better candidate for hole, but don't think it passes as well.
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Johan
International Regular
His average in games Hadlee plays is just 35, and he does dismiss him a bunch, surely that shows he wasn't as invincible against Hadlee as he was against others?
now regarding England, one ATG series and one very good series at home but that's 2 serieses out of 9, everything else was from some level of one match performance to downright to downright unacceptable in 1984/85, so overall it's not really something extra ordinary to suggest he had an issue with England, after all he does average 38 against them even after playing most tests against England at 38.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
That was early career Hadlee before he became worldclass. Overall he underperformed in series with top Hadlee and Lillee.
Eng is below par. WI mixed. Pakistan very good.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Now 35 is below par, but if you break it up really, it hardly was something like he struggled to him regularly. He just had a bad 3 matches in NZ, did perfectly fine before and at home.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest he underperformed, I think it's unreasonable to think it was some big hole in his record. He should had done better against them, but it's not like he necessarily did bad against them as well. Has plenty of silver linings for me to not call his English record a hole per se.