South Africa team selection

[Dendarii]

I don't know what the word from the team/selectors has been about Rickelton, but I've seen people remark that he's only being regarded as the backup keeper. Which if it's true is a real WTF moment. The guy's good enough to play a specialist batsman, so really should be in the team.

And on Erwee, I didn't have a problem with him being the backup opener for a given series. If the intention was always going to have been for the first choice pairing of Elgar and Markram to play every match then rather have Erwee be the one kicking his heels in the changing room rather than any of the future prospects, which means that they can then turn out for their domestic sides as that will benefit them more. But it created the situation where they now felt that he deserved his chance after being the reserve for so long, and regardless of how he might have gone, that just wasn't the right decision.

 

[Dendarii]

Something else - Elgar rightly gets praised for toughing it out and playing gritty innings (not going to use the n-word to describe them), but he also seems to go out cheaply quite often. It seems like a long time since we've had a substantial opening partnership, and while a lot of that has to do with Markram's struggles, it hasn't always been his fault.

 

[StephenZA]

Something else - Elgar rightly gets praised for toughing it out and playing gritty innings (not going to use the n-word to describe them), but he also seems to go out cheaply quite often. It seems like a long time since we've had a substantial opening partnership, and while a lot of that has to do with Markram's struggles, it hasn't always been his fault.

I know I was joking about dropping Elgar and VDD throughout the Indian series... but many a true word said in jest.

Elgar should not be dropped but he tends to do one big innings a series but kinda goes missing otherwise. And his attitude is great, but we could also try pick batsmen that dominate and score runs such that 'nuggety' is less required and we just in a strong position.

 

[Flem274*]

Bowling not the problem as such... but still picking players that are not great is not a good look. Stuurman is never going to be truly world class and Olivier is not what he once was. As far as I`m concerned Mulder can do as good if not a better job than Stuurman and possibly Olivier at the moment. Ngidi getting injured was not great. So the bowling selection is more to do with bad selection policy for the squad and then for the team balance overall. This comes from muddled thinking, and is particularly present within the batting selections.

SA people by and large think in a very regimented way, things must be done in order, in the considered 'right way'. But if you question the 'right way' that things have always been done in, you find yourself questioning the establishment or the 'cricketing knowledge' in this case. And that is 'Wrong'. Where SA stands right now was entirely predictable, was not unforeseen (been talking about it for years). And I`m not just talking selection policy here. Even the problems with management and Boucher, Smith. Entirely predictable, and entirely expected. Both what Boucher had done in the past, the reaction to his appointment from all directions. Mostly what I do nowadays is cross my fingers and hope its not gonna be that bad.

I understand frustration with systemic issues that drag on for years, but when guys are injured you need to pick the next best players and the bowlers did OK until the fielders ruined it.

Olivier still looks a very solid reserve bowler and while Stuurman might not add more overall value than Mulder, he looks OK for a reserve on debut.

I've seen Hendricks, Paterson etc and these guys at Hagley look a step up. If Stuurman is your 6th best bowler at most then that's decent depth. At full strength when also choosing a spinner and all-rounder, Jansen sitting on the bench is excellent back up. A depth chart of:

Rabada
Ngidi
Nortje
Jansen
Olivier
Stuurman

Can be worked with. The batting though....I've always liked Elgar and like most modern openers is better than his average but he's not what we're used to seeing from South Africa's best batsman.

 

[StephenZA]

I understand frustration with systemic issues that drag on for years, but when guys are injured you need to pick the next best players and the bowlers did OK until the fielders ruined it.

Olivier still looks a very solid reserve bowler and while Stuurman might not add more overall value than Mulder, he looks OK for a reserve on debut.

I've seen Hendricks, Paterson etc and these guys at Hagley look a step up. If Stuurman is your 6th best bowler at most then that's decent depth. At full strength when also choosing a spinner and all-rounder, Jansen sitting on the bench is excellent back up. A depth chart of:

Rabada
Ngidi
Nortje
Jansen
Olivier
Stuurman

Can be worked with. The batting though....I've always liked Elgar and like most modern openers is better than his average but he's not what we're used to seeing from South Africa's best batsman.

Agree with top 4, but we have better reserve bowlers that should possibly also be getting experience (bearing in mind Jansen leapfrogged many players). In particular we have Gerald Coetzee and Lutho Sipamla. The selection basis for Stuurman and Olivier is that they can walk into the team and contribute due to their experience. I have hardly ever seen that happen, the only experience that works at top level is the international experience and even then you need the skill to back it up. I don't know if Sipamla and Coetzee can make it at international but they have the skills to do it, how long must they wait to start gaining experience? How many more years while we go down the line in a systematic slow process.... because that is the process, not because that is what is best for SA cricket.

And if we had a team of old that was doing well and we approached slow and systematic I would be fine with that, what we have is a bunch of journey man because 'experience' while leaving to much talent sitting on the side lines, while basically trying to rebuild from scratch.

 

[WpGuy]

Next test only option is to go 1.elgar 2. erwee 3. hamza 4. rvdd 5. bavuma 6,rickleton wk 7, mulder 8. jansen 9. maharaj 10. ngidi/oliver 11.rabada

team should be Elgar , Richards, Petersen, Van tonder, Bavuma, Rickleton, Mulder, Jansen ,Maharaj, Rabada, Ngidi

 

[Dendarii]

team should be Elgar , Richards, Petersen, Van tonder, Bavuma, Rickleton, Mulder, Jansen ,Maharaj, Rabada, Ngidi

I haven't always agreed with your picks, but I can definitely get behind that team. Don't see it happening though.

 

[StephenZA]

Don't forget Nortje needs to come back...

 

[WpGuy]

Don't forget Nortje needs to come back...

True then Jansen needs to be benched I guess... as Ngidi, Rabada,Nortjie,Maharaj,Mulder allrounder our best structure. Clearly Jansen cannot bat 7 yet and Kyle V we can't afford 20 innings to prove like t he past so hopefully rickleton comes off quickly.

 

[WpGuy]

I haven't always agreed with your picks, but I can definitely get behind that team. Don't see it happening though.

The one nice thing I guess is 5 players of colour on merit Boucher been going with 4 mainly.

 

[WpGuy]

Rumour has it Prince to replace Smith as Dor, apparently Smith has done a good job, maybe prince though could make the hard choices or not.....

 

[trundler]

The trouble with a batting line up like SA's is that the younger lot have to come in and bat at 3 and 4 instead of first finding their feet down at 6. Van Der Dussen just isn't a test #4. Of course, Petersen's debut was mightily impressive for the same reason.

 

[WpGuy]

The trouble with a batting line up like SA's is that the younger lot have to come in and bat at 3 and 4 instead of first finding their feet down at 6. Van Der Dussen just isn't a test #4. Of course, Petersen's debut was mightily impressive for the same reason.

Why he is a 3. NOT All youngsters need to start 5 or 6 .

 

[StephenZA]

The trouble with a batting line up like SA's is that the younger lot have to come in and bat at 3 and 4 instead of first finding their feet down at 6. Van Der Dussen just isn't a test #4. Of course, Petersen's debut was mightily impressive for the same reason.

Ideally you want the youngster to start at 5/6 in a settled team. But when you rebuilding from scratch you place the youngsters in the best positions for them and then importantly give them time and support... not 2 Tests or 10 tests over 20 test period. They need a consistent 10 to 15 tests to prove their mettle. The problem with choosing older journey men is they don't know international cricket much better than the youngsters, but are expected to contribute straight away. But you can't give them 15 Tests because they probably only have 45 tests in them left.

 

[WpGuy]

Next test only option is to go 1.elgar 2. erwee 3. hamza 4. rvdd 5. bavuma 6,rickleton wk 7, mulder 8. jansen 9. maharaj 10. ngidi/oliver 11.rabada

team should be Elgar , Richards, Petersen, Van tonder, Bavuma, Rickleton, Mulder, Jansen ,Maharaj, Rabada, Ngidi

De Zorzi maybe to replace Bavuma at some point, hopefully brevis, Bird , Parsons, etc to put pressure, I guess if experienced at franchise level guys don't cut the mustard straight away ie rvdd might as well put youngsters in and give them long term chances.

 

[Stefan9]

Rumour has it Prince to replace Smith as Dor, apparently Smith has done a good job, maybe prince though could make the hard choices or not.....

Not sure CSA would go for him as he is against targets. Only guy in franchise cricket to have fielded a side who didn't comply. Plus made lots of arguments against it during the sjn hearings.

 

[WpGuy]

Not sure CSA would go for him as he is against targets. Only guy in franchise cricket to have fielded a side who didn't comply. Plus made lots of arguments against it during the sjn hearings.

Is a person of color not dark enough these days? dumb dumb rules should of left munroe and interim team coach to fail!

 

[StephenZA]

I don't know how to feel about Erwee's continued selection... his ton was great to see but is sticking with him the right thing to do? I just don't know.

 

[Dendarii]

Erwee's century has meant that they're probably going to stick with him for a few more tests at least. The problem with his selection is that you just don't know how it's going to turn out.

We're probably not going to get more than three or four years out of him, but if it's three or four years of a stability of the top of the order then it will end up having been an inspired selection. However, I'm not entirely convinced that's going to happen, and the time we'll end up spending persisting with him may end up having been better spent allowing a younger player who's going to be there for longer time to find his feet at international level.

 

[morgieb]

Erwee feels very Stephen Cook-esque. Certainly not a bad batsman but isn't really gonna be much better than meh. He'll get a run but I'm skeptical he'll have a particularly good one.

SA's selectors (from a guy sitting on the other side of the ocean) have felt pretty hideously conservative with regards to the batting. Someone like van Tonder in particular should've had a crack already and likely would've for many other nations. Instead it looks like they're going for the best domestic performers full stop as stopgaps, even though South Africa's big problem (in the current climate) is a lack of genuine stars in the batting lineup that can average 45+.