South Africa team selection

[Nintendo]

Australia have depth, jhye and jpat are both test quality and guys like neser are decent enough, just doesn't look like it when our other 2 proven test quality bowlers are injured/not fit yet.

 

[Prince EWS]

Fair enough. Despite many (mostly outsiders) saying South Africa has no depth, I very much disagree on fast bowling. Dupavillon is vastly better than an Abbott/Steketee tier bowler imo

I certainly agree about Steketee and would've agreed about Abbott until recently, but I think he's really improved his red ball bowling over the last season or so. I'd put him on a similar level to Dupa now.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I certainly agree about Steketee and would've agreed about Abbott until recently, but I think he's really improved his red ball bowling over the last season or so. I'd put him on a similar level to Dupa now.

Abbott has certainly improved his first class game a fair bit, not sure he's quite Test quality but it certainly isn't a complete non starter

 

[Bahseph]

"Bedanta: "Further on Shresth's Zubayr Hamza reference, I remember him debuting for SA in a home series may be a season ago. Was he dropped or injured because he was very highly rated?" -- Reliable sources inform me that we may not see much of him, and we shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play another Test. His batting technique has, perhaps, been tweaked a bit too much, against his natural and original style of play."

Saw this one Cricinfo. What does this even mean???

 

[StephenZA]

Something has gone wrong with Hamza. I don’t know what but I do think somebody got into his head and also possibly changed his technique to his detriment. Hopefully it can be fixed.

 

[Heboric]

If fit, should we somehow put Shamsi in and in place of whom, keeping in mind our dodgy batting line up

 

[Bahseph]

Okay so the frustration has subsided...were any of us expecting a different result? We knew the frailties in the squad and those were the exact same frailties that were exposed. The selection of Linde over Mulder makes even less sense in hindsight when you consider how little Linde ended up bowling.

As I mentioned before we need Faf and Elgar to perform above their mean for this side composition to work. I was happy with Markram and Rassie. They stuck it out even though they weren't always comfortable. I've been tough on Rassie but he has 5 half centuries in 12 innings. He is not at the top of the list of problems is he?

I don't know what made me read the Firdose article on Cricinfo but she is suggesting Bavuma's record is down to the fact that he bats with the tail too often. And she notes that by batting him below QDK they are putting him under pressure. I like Temba,but it's been 43 Test matches now.

 

[Dendarii]

I don't know what made me read the Firdose article on Cricinfo but she is suggesting Bavuma's record is down to the fact that he bats with the tail too often.

I've heard that argument before, but I don't buy it.

Bavuma has played 29 matches where he's batted at 6 and he's made 1249 runs at an average of 33 with 9 fifties, 1 century and a high score of 102 not out, from 44 innings.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

However, De Kock has batted at 7 in 21 matches where Bavuma has played, and he's made 1262 runs at an average of 53 with 6 fifties, 5 centuries and a high score of 129 not out, from 27 innings.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...r_involve=58190;template=results;type=batting

So if Bavuma's record is poor because of batting with the tail, then shouldn't De Kock's record batting lower than Bavuma also be poor for the same reason?

And she notes that by batting him below QDK they are putting him under pressure.

That's a valid point, but it's because De Kock isn't scoring runs at the moment (which may not have been her argument - I haven't read the article), and nor is Faf as he's done nothing since the 199 against Sri Lanka. Bavuma might not be up to the task, but he's not being done any favours when a score of x for 2 is becoming x + not much for 4 far too often.

 

[StephenZA]

As I mentioned before we need Faf and Elgar to perform above their mean for this side composition to work. I was happy with Markram and Rassie. They stuck it out even though they weren't always comfortable. I've been tough on Rassie but he has 5 half centuries in 12 innings. He is not at the top of the list of problems is he?

Faf and Elgar are playing as they have always, they are 40 avg players and unfortunately they will never be more. They are not suddenly going to become replacements for ABdV, Amla, Smith or Kallis. Elgar is probably at the peak of what he will give and Faf is on the decline. I don't see the point of Faf in the side at the moment largely because I don't know what he is adding except 'experience'. Rassie is a good player, but at best he will be another Faf/Elgar and in another time and place that would be alright. But not when you need to rebuild a batting unit from scratch. Rassie gives us nothing for the future to look forward to, Rassie scoring runs occasionally does not change the fundamental problem with the team selection and batting problems.

Markram has actually disappointed me. The problems that he has always had has not improved (mainly his hard hands pushing at the ball). His solution to this is not to play the ball at all? This takes away from one of his biggest assets, to score quickly. I would rather treat Markram like a Sehwag and let him play his natural game because that will do more for the team than another plodder at the top of the order, particularly when its not his game. He is a thing of beauty to watch in full flow, but between his problems, advice he is likely getting and the overall brittle batting order I think he has no confidence in just playing his game.

QDK should not be captain (not that I think he is captain in anything but name), and he should not bat higher than 6. And taking the gloves off QDK to bat higher I think is a bad idea.

If I had my way, we would be playing a line-up something like this.

Elgar
Markram
van Tonder
Petersen
Verreynne/Qeshile
QDK
Mulder
Coetzee
Maharaj
Rabada
Dupavillon/Ngidi/Nortje/Sipamla

It would be young and inexperienced side, but full of talent and would do no worse than we doing now, with potential to do a whole lot better.

 

[Dendarii]

In happier news, the women had another comfortable victory over Pakistan.

Looking at the way they line up, it's clear that some thought has gone into it e.g. Wolvaardt doesn't have a power game, so she's dropped down the order to come in when the field's spread and she can find the gaps, while Kapp is very happy to go aerial, so she's pushed up the order. That's a complete contrast to the men where it seems like we're still doing the same old thing even though it's not working (that definition of insanity comes to mind).

The women were rusty in the first couple of games against Pakistan, but they seem to be coming right, and right now I'd have to say that they're looking far more organised than the men.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Stephen, I feel you're being a tad harsh with regards VDD. He's really not that old and has started his test career reasonably well. Is he likely to be a guy averaging 40+ consistently throughout his test career? Probably not, but I feel there is scope there for him to score good runs at number 4/5 for the next few years, and allow Van Tonder to bed in at 3. With the imminent retirement of Faf, I do feel he could be a Faf-like presence in the middle order

Could he be a downgraded Jonathan Trott? i.e a guy that has scored alot of FC runs and only found his way internationally in his late 20s

 

[ParwazHaiJunoon]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355130044994252801

Look SA Fans, Rambo knows better . So, just persist with your version of Asad Shafiq

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355035091441954817

 

[Rasimione]

That batting line up pisses me off!

 

[StephenZA]

Stephen, I feel you're being a tad harsh with regards VDD. He's really not that old and has started his test career reasonably well. Is he likely to be a guy averaging 40+ consistently throughout his test career? Probably not, but I feel there is scope there for him to score good runs at number 4/5 for the next few years, and allow Van Tonder to bed in at 3. With the imminent retirement of Faf, I do feel he could be a Faf-like presence in the middle order

Could he be a downgraded Jonathan Trott? i.e a guy that has scored alot of FC runs and only found his way internationally in his late 20s

I am being incredibly unfair on Rassie, he has done nothing wrong. But I don't understand what he gives us long term, in two or three years time is he going to be contributing any more than what he does now. I doubt it very much.

I have been advocating for a wholesale change on the batting front since before 2019, we now in 2021 we have hardly seen any of our young talents given an extended opportunity. And not surprisingly we are exactly in the same place as what we where two years. What do we do, wait another two years and continue hoping magically everything will get better? All I`m advocating is picking our young talent and giving them an extended opportunity to prove themselves at top level. If they don't work out so be it, at least we know and can move onwards but this treading water picking the same stalwart journey men players over again and expecting different results is now getting pretty damn ridiculous.

 

[Dendarii]

If I had my way, we would be playing a line-up something like this.

Elgar
Markram
van Tonder
Petersen
Verreynne/Qeshile
QDK
Mulder
Coetzee
Maharaj
Rabada
Dupavillon/Ngidi/Nortje/Sipamla

It would be young and inexperienced side, but full of talent and would do no worse than we doing now, with potential to do a whole lot better.

That's a side which all of us here would get behind, but it's not a side we're going to see. And I have to ask why?

We're obviously not cricketing professionals and I'll accept that sometimes fans don't have the best ideas, but I would say that those of us who post here are backing up our opinions with sound reasoning. And it's not like that's an outrageous team as nearly all the players have been picked for the test squad, but they're not being considered for the starting XI.

So what is it that we're seeing that those in charge are not seeing (or vice versa)? Is it stubbornness and the feeling that to make changes would be to admit that they've got things wrong? Is it a reluctance to make the tough calls because of personal connections to the players (which to be fair is an inevitable consequence of spending so much time together)? If things like that are the case then do we actually have the right people in charge?

Granted, this sort of thing isn't exclusive to South African cricket as it happens in all sports at all levels, and they're just the current target of my dissatisfaction. But it is puzzling how those in charge can be so seemingly oblivious to things which appear obvious to keen observers like us.

 

[StephenZA]

SA cricket is quite regimented in their thinking. I think there is some personal connections, I think there is underlying politics both internal within CSA and external pressure. And think that this all contributes to a forced sense of 'fair play'. Can't skip past this player to pick this player without having a 'good reason' else it becomes you are playing favourites, or because it is quota, or racial discrimination or whatever. So you get the sense of people doing things by some inexplicable the book.

From a coaching point of view I think that Boucher may have been excellent coach for a team not in transition, I wonder if he is the right sort of coach/player to take risks and move us forward. It was always my concern with going back to the older stalwarts that they would try recreate what we had rather than move forwards. I would like to see a coach like Ray Jennings/Woolmer, who were used to building teams and picking and working with young talent.

 

[Dendarii]

And the women take the T20 series with another good victory.

They batted slowly initially but were able to accelerate well at the end and prevent Pakistan from doing likewise. Despite batting well in this series, Brits is presumably going to make way for Van Niekerk when she's back, but it's good to have depth.

And Ismail is such a class bowler.

 

[Heboric]

And the women take the T20 series with another good victory.

They batted slowly initially but were able to accelerate well at the end and prevent Pakistan from doing likewise. Despite batting well in this series, Brits is presumably going to make way for Van Niekerk when she's back, but it's good to have depth.

And Ismail is such a class bowler.

They will also need to find space for Chloe Tryon

 

[Heboric]

De Kock , wont be captain after Rawalpindi test

Mark Boucher: Quinton de Kock to be released from 'burden' of Test captaincy after Pakistan tour

Head coach calls Australia's decision to call off tour of South Africa "very disappointing and disruptive"

www.espncricinfo.com

This is written by Miss Tabloid, so be warned

 

[Dendarii]

She is quoting Boucher, so that makes it at least a bit more reliable than her usual fare, assuming she's quoting him correctly and in context.