South Africa team selection

[SeamUp]

Need to be careful of the bigger picture as well; the mens international team makes all the money. And that is predicated on them being competitive in Test matches against the likes of India, Aus and Eng. LO stuff might be fun and make money, but those matches lose lots of their lustre when the cricket team is considered to be 2nd rate, and that consensus generally comes from Test performance.

So much good common sense in this post. You just hope there are people who realise this.

I do respect them trying to bring much needed respect back to the system but with the success of some of the young players towards the back end of the summer & the need to find players capable of being match winners at international level (just those guys with that bit more about them) over fairly successful domestic players there will need to be more brave calls to stay in the bubble for a multitude of reasons starting with the points you bring up.

I suppose they could argue that they've shortened the 4-day season so much that it won't effect things if it skipped a season and you hope that , that sort of mind-set isn't there. I guess SA A becomes even more important but we have no idea if these commitments can even be followed through with which was one of their main areas they were looking into. Even then, good quality 4-day cricket only afforded to a small % so you got to get it right who you pick.

 

[StephenZA]

Jono Bird (Cobras)
Matthew Breetzke (Warriors)
Sine Qeshile (Warriors)
Marco Jansen (Warriors)
Grant Roelofsen (Dolphins)
Lifa Ntanzi (Dolphins)
Wandile Makwetu (Knights)
Ryan Rickelton (Lions)
Thando Ntini (Titans)

Not seen much of Lifa Ntanzi, how good do you think he could be?

 

[SeamUp]

Not seen much of Lifa Ntanzi, how good do you think he could be?

Too early to say but he does have raw pace. Slight concern is the how he probably over balances to the left but if his action can honed there is something there. Right now I can see his pace being erratic and he could travel a bit but that is part of the learning.

Probably too soon to put Bird, him and even someone like Parsons in the mix. But think all 3 are nice long-term projects.

There is an Afrikaans article on the net to talking about the new Pace battery we can start building.

Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi with B.Hendricks, Dupavillon, Sipamla ,Stuurman, Burger in the wings + the young pups Coetzee, Ntini, Jansen

I read another article where they say Stuurman can be the new Philander. Don't think that is fair on him.

 

[StephenZA]

I read another article where they say Stuurman can be the new Philander. Don't think that is fair on him.

That is a big ask from him. Don't see it. He looks an excellent FC maybe a good jobbing international, I do feel we would need to be far down the injury tree for his selection.

My ideal pace battery would be based around Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi, Coetzee and Jansen (in that order). I feel like Dupavillon has lost something with his injuries, even though he still deserves a shot. Sipamla and Ntini look to have potential in LO cricket more at this stage.

 

[SeamUp]

That is a big ask from him. Don't see it. He looks an excellent FC maybe a good jobbing international, I do feel we would need to be far down the injury tree for his selection.

My ideal pace battery would be based around Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi, Coetzee and Jansen (in that order). I feel like Dupavillon has lost something with his injuries, even though he still deserves a shot. Sipamla and Ntini look to have potential in LO cricket more at this stage.

Yeah. Stuurman and Burger are in the same boat for me. Beuran Hendricks too but I suspect him and Dupavillon will be around the 3 main quicks for test cricket first. For Hendricks, we've seen is limitations in world cup games and the test v England but they will probably back him. Dupavillon. A good first season back, but I agree think he can step it up more and next year can tell us how far he can go.

Coetzee is the real deal. If he stays injury free he is our next Steyn, KG etc Early freak talent backed really young.

Marco Jansen I find an odd case. I think there is something there but I've heard quite negative remarks about him from a Knights senior player - saying he isn't all that & he is lazy and they were fine for him to leave Bloem for Eastern Cape. Would have been nice for him to work with Allan Donald. Time will tell and not that I take SA A selections seriously for the last few years but the fact they picked him there without any real franchise cricket was a surprise but intereting. So someone clearly likes him.

Sipamla and Ntini need to get quicker. But agree, first opportunities would be limited overs cricket and keep assessing.


My biggest frustration this winter is not allowing the competition between our batsmen to show their hand. Let the young players really show who has the match winning ability in both FC and 50-over cricket. That is the most frustrating and we don't know when it will solve itself and the fear has always been trough games. Particularly test cricket.

 

[StephenZA]

Marco Jansen I find an odd case. I think there is something there but I've heard quite negative remarks about him from a Knights senior player - saying he isn't all that & he is lazy and they were fine for him to leave Bloem for Eastern Cape. Would have been nice for him to work with Allan Donald. Time will tell and not that I take SA A selections seriously for the last few years but the fact they picked him there without any real franchise cricket was a surprise but intereting. So someone clearly likes him.

Having a bad work ethic is not nice to hear... maybe just unhappy? Hopefully somebody can get the best out of him because he definitely has something.

Coetzee coming along would be great for SA, Him and Rabada would keep the great SA fast bowling line-ups going for another decade.

My biggest frustration this winter is not allowing the competition between our batsmen to show their hand. Let the young players really show who has the match winning ability in both FC and 50-over cricket. That is the most frustrating and we don't know when it will solve itself and the fear has always been trough games. Particularly test cricket.

We really need to see the younger batsmen play. I am desperate to give Hamza and van Tonder a long run straight away. Bring in Mulder and with Markram back think that would dramatically improve SA batting line up. Then let the rest of the youngsters fight it out for next in line aver the next 18 months. Need to give them game time in any way we can even if just competition against each other.

 

[StephenZA]

I am happy to have an immediate test line-up that looks like this even if we have to choose Bavuma over Faf... not ideal or really wanted. But SA needs to move onwards quickly.

Elgar
Markram
Hamza
Bavuma/Faf
Van Tonder
QDK
Mulder
Maharaj
Nortje
Rabada
Ngidi

Could rearrange the line up with van Tonder opening if they felt that was better.

 

[SeamUp]

Having a bad work ethic is not nice to hear... maybe just unhappy? Hopefully somebody can get the best out of him because he definitely has something.

Coetzee coming along would be great for SA, Him and Rabada would keep the great SA fast bowling line-ups going for another decade.

We really need to see the younger batsmen play. I am desperate to give Hamza and van Tonder a long run straight away. Bring in Mulder and with Markram back think that would dramatically improve SA batting line up. Then let the rest of the youngsters fight it out for next in line aver the next 18 months. Need to give them game time in any way we can even if just competition against each other.

We definitely have enough to work with to formulate a strong team in all formats again. The journey there may be tough at times but the "bigger picture" should always be considered.

Hopefully Markram & Hamza have had good communication from coaching staff to where they stand. Hamza went away and did well in 50-over cricket. Good for him.

Think J.Malan and Verreynne are deservedly into the next category with young players with their early international performances.

Interesting to find out what made them choose de Zorzi, van Tonder and Ackerman from the 24 and under batsmen outside the above 2. de Zorzi had a good 50-over season and a decent 4-day season (but that was mainly down to 1 score) whereas van Tonder and Ackerman was more 4-day dominant seasons.

de Zorzi
4-day : 400 @ 50.00 with 1/1
1-day : 479 @ 47.90 with 1/3 @ 85.84

van Tonder
4-day : 843 @ 70.25 with 2/5
1-day : 71 @ 11.83 with 0/0 @ 47.33

Ackerman
4-day : 660 @ 41.25 with 1/6
1-day : 260@ 28.88 with 0/1 @ 78.54




Breetzke [Needs to become more consistent but I also think a decision must be made where it is best for him to bat in red-ball cricket]
4-day : 427 @ 30.50 with 1/3
1-day : 303 @ 50.50 with 0/3 @ 89.64

Qeshile [tough season but think he will bounce back next. Keeping duties went to Second in FC?]
4-day : 334 @ 25.69 with 0/3
1-day : 234 @ 33.42 with 0/2 @ 74.52

Roelofsen [can only think it is because it was his first season that he wasn't in the enlarged squad. Good that keeping duties not given in 4-day cricket. Could he bat 4/5. Yes. ]
4-day : 575 @ 44.23 with 3/1
1-day : 588 @ 65.33 with 1/5 @ 97.51

Makwetu [probably first season really and being a keeper ; he will need to do more but he is definitely in that middle-order finisher w/k group]
4-day : 342 @ 57.00 with 1/2
1-day : 191 @ 31.83 with 0/0 @ 72.34

Rickelton [he needs a better opportunity in 4-day cricket to see if he is definitely a white ball player only. But problems for him is number of openers. T20 might be his best bet.]
4-day : 36 @ 9.00 with 0/0
1-day : 511 @ 51.10 with 1/2 @ 88.56

 

[StephenZA]

van Tonder is just such a classy good player. You know I am a huge fan boy. de Zorzi looks classy, but does not seem to be doing enough with it. We know he is going to be given all the opportunity because he is player of colour. Hopefully comes good. M. Ackerman is a strange one for me because he looks to be putting up the numbers but whenever I`ve seen him seems to fail. That is possible because we only get to see the List-A where he seems to struggle. Selectors obviously rate him.

J.Malan and Verreynne have both put up the numbers in the last couple of seasons. Not 100 % sold on techniques for either yet but deserve every opportunity.

A number of these younger batsmen are also wicket-keepers. Do you think that QDK should stay as SA wicket-keeper long term or become a pure batsman? Are any of these players better wicket-keepers? My preference is for QDK to be kept as SA wicket-keeper, but I don't know enough about it to be a true judge of skill.

 

[Dendarii]

A number of these younger batsmen are also wicket-keepers. Do you think that QDK should stay as SA wicket-keeper long term or become a pure batsman? Are any of these players better wicket-keepers? My preference is for QDK to be kept as SA wicket-keeper, but I don't know enough about it to be a true judge of skill.

I don't think there's a pressing need for De Kock to give up the gloves in the shorter formats as it's not like his batting can get that much better. Tests may be a different matter, although there's no guarantee that his batting will improve if relieved of the burden of keeping.

My stance has always been that whoever is the best keeper should keep and the others need to make it into the team purely as batsmen, but like you I'm not in a position to judge keeping ability. Having said that, if De Kock becomes captain then perhaps it might be better for him not to keep because of the team being out in the field longer than in an ODI. But other players have managed to captain in tests from behind the stumps, so he may be perfectly capable of doing so too.

 

[Dendarii]

Coetzee is the real deal. If he stays injury free he is our next Steyn, KG etc Early freak talent backed really young.

It seems ridiculous (in a good way) that not only do we continue to churn out these guys, but we do it regularly enough that we have careers overlapping.

Marco Jansen I find an odd case. I think there is something there but I've heard quite negative remarks about him from a Knights senior player - saying he isn't all that & he is lazy and they were fine for him to leave Bloem for Eastern Cape. Would have been nice for him to work with Allan Donald. Time will tell and not that I take SA A selections seriously for the last few years but the fact they picked him there without any real franchise cricket was a surprise but intereting. So someone clearly likes him.

Obviously pure speculation, but I wonder if the early success such as being selected to the A side has gone to his head a bit and created a sense of entitlement. leading to a negative attitude/poor work ethic. He wouldn't be the first player that's happened to, so hopefully the change of environment will do him good as he's definitely got potential.

 

[Marius]

So, who'll be appointed Test skip?

I think Elgar should maybe get the job as a stopgap for now, none of the other candidates (VDD, Bavuma, Markram) are certainties in the side at the moment.

There is Quinny but I get the feeling he doesn't want to skip in Tests.

 

[Dendarii]

The question of the next captain is a bit of a tricky one as there's no immediately obvious candidate, and I'd put Maharaj down as another candidate.

So I have absolutely no idea, but if I were to hazard a guess I'd say it'll either be De Kock if he's willing/they think he's capable, or Markram as has the captaincy credentials, and his place is probably secure for the time being given how much a monster he is in domestic cricket.

But it could just as easily end up being someone else.

 

[Marius]

The question of the next captain is a bit of a tricky one as there's no immediately obvious candidate, and I'd put Maharaj down as another candidate.

So I have absolutely no idea, but if I were to hazard a guess I'd say it'll either be De Kock if he's willing/they think he's capable, or Markram as has the captaincy credentials, and his place is probably secure for the time being given how much a monster he is in domestic cricket.

But it could just as easily end up being someone else.

Yeah, there's even been talk of Rabada as skip.

He seems to have the respect of the other guys, but fast bowlers seldom work as captain, and not sure KG has the temperament to be captain.

 

[StephenZA]

QDK and Rabada are the only 2 players that should be guaranteed their spots long run. They have skipped past QDK for now as captain. I can't see them picking Rabada. That leaves Elgar, Maharaj, Bavuma. Maharaj would be a good choice, but SA tends to drop spinners unnecessarily. Elgar seems the most obvious temporary solution, but his place in side should not be guaranteed based on current output. And Bavuma would be pure politics; if he started putting in performances would not be bad. But all would be a place holder for future captain. Markram seemed the best long term option until he just lost form and then lost a guaranteed spot.

Right now I could not even predict 8 of the first choice Test 11 at the moment, never-mind the captain.

 

[Marius]

QDK and Rabada are the only 2 players that should be guaranteed their spots long run. They have skipped past QDK for now as captain. I can't see them picking Rabada. That leaves Elgar, Maharaj, Bavuma. Maharaj would be a good choice, but SA tends to drop spinners unnecessarily. Elgar seems the most obvious temporary solution, but his place in side should not be guaranteed based on current output. And Bavuma would be pure politics; if he started putting in performances would not be bad. But all would be a place holder for future captain. Markram seemed the best long term option until he just lost form and then lost a guaranteed spot.

Right now I could not even predict 8 of the first choice Test 11 at the moment, never-mind the captain.

Ja, the first Test XI we pick is going to be interesting (if SA ever plays a Test again).

I think Bavuma would actually be a decent captain, but if he gets picked now you would be right, it would only be politics. The guy barely averages 30 and if it wasn't for politics he would have been told to go back to domestic cricket and keep making runs for a season or so.

 

[Beamer]

Sounds like the plan is for South Africa to tour Windies in September, depending on what happens to the IPL.

Will be fascinating to see the teams that get selected if that tour goes ahead.

 

[StephenZA]

Sounds like the plan is for South Africa to tour Windies in September, depending on what happens to the IPL.

Will be fascinating to see the teams that get selected if that tour goes ahead.

If that happens, I can't see the players from IPL playing in that team. Also India and SA are meant to be playing some ODI's that there is talk about having in UAE before the IPL.

It is all a bit of a mess. Would love for a younger good team to be selected and sent to WI for a 'test' tour though.

 

[Beamer]

Lets see what happens. From what I'm hearing, SA tour is one of those we lose money on, so we might not be that keen to make it happen. Though from a cricketing perspective it would be an excellent opportunity for both teams.

 

[SeamUp]

A number of these younger batsmen are also wicket-keepers. Do you think that QDK should stay as SA wicket-keeper long term or become a pure batsman? Are any of these players better wicket-keepers? My preference is for QDK to be kept as SA wicket-keeper, but I don't know enough about it to be a true judge of skill.

I don't think there's a pressing need for De Kock to give up the gloves in the shorter formats as it's not like his batting can get that much better. Tests may be a different matter, although there's no guarantee that his batting will improve if relieved of the burden of keeping.

My stance has always been that whoever is the best keeper should keep and the others need to make it into the team purely as batsmen, but like you I'm not in a position to judge keeping ability. Having said that, if De Kock becomes captain then perhaps it might be better for him not to keep because of the team being out in the field longer than in an ODI. But other players have managed to captain in tests from behind the stumps, so he may be perfectly capable of doing so too.

As long as they are the best batsmen to choose from I'm fine if they also keepers as long as whoever keeps (keeps well) and whoever fields (fields well).

I think Verreynne, Second, Qeshile, Roelofsen, Makwetu, Rickelton, Klaasen can all contribute internationally when it is the right time if they given a role they comfortable with.

I still can't make a definite decision re QdK simply because I don't think we need to change anything now but some might say the sooner we commit the better and clearer it is for QdK and possibly the team. Possibly now that he is 50-over captain and with Klaasen/Verreynne in the squad and possibilities outside the squad, that is where we can let QdK concentrate on captaincy and relieve him of keeping and find out about the others.