• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

South Africa team selection

P

Pup Clarke

Cricketer Of The Year
Haha such backwards thinking. Miller is coming up to his prime years (imo) and Ngidi should be there too. Both nailed on starters for me

EDIT to be fair he would include Ngidi.
 
Last edited:
Dendarii

Dendarii

International Debutant
There's still a lot of support for Morris, and I can understand why as he bowls quick, hits the ball a long way, and is the sort of player who can deliver that moment of magic with either the bat or the ball. But he doesn't do it consistently enough, and a look at his ODI record is telling. After 34 matches he's averaging 19.7 with the bat and 40.4 with the ball, and you can't justify his selection with figures like that.
 
MrPrez

MrPrez

International Debutant
The more I think about it, the more I favour Pretorius over Andile.

Andile can win matches but I still don't trust his batting enough to be comfortable having him at 7 given our weaknesses in our top 6. I'd rather have a reliable Pretorius than a mercurial Andile as far as batting goes.

I'm also not sure I back Andile against better teams - I know there was lots of talk about "playing for a spot" this series but in truth it was a bit of a stomp. I'm not sure we can take too much out of that series - Sri Lanka is probably looking weaker than Bangladesh and even possibly Afghanistan.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Andile never gets enough of an opportunity to know what he is actually worth at 7..... he has batted less than half the innings in games he has played in the last 2 years (often because they put him at 8); lots of N/O because he gets to face 6 odd balls. In this momentum cup batting at 6 consistently for the Dolphins he has scored all 4 of his 50+'s at LA level. It is difficult to know what his real worth is if he never really gets a chance.

Anyway, my thought is that whoever bats at 7 if they have to face more than 20 balls in the innings we are already in trouble and need to be bailed out by the bowlers. Top 6 have to score 90% of the runs this WC.
 
MrPrez

MrPrez

International Debutant
StephenZA said:
Anyway, my thought is that whoever bats at 7 if they have to face more than 20 balls in the innings we are already in trouble and need to be bailed out by the bowlers. Top 6 have to score 90% of the runs this WC.
Click to expand...
While I agree that they shouldn't have to face over 20 balls, the truth is there will almost certainly be some matches where they have to do so anyway.

I think Andile has talent, but as you say he hasn't proven his ability against top international sides yet, and I think it could go either way with him.

I'm also not 100% on his bowling - it's looked fairly good against SL but will it be as good when Kohli, Williamson, etc are facing?

I could see him getting smacked around a bit - Markram certainly looked comfortable enough navigating him in the Momentum Cup final.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
MrPrez said:
While I agree that they shouldn't have to face over 20 balls, the truth is there will almost certainly be some matches where they have to do so anyway.
Click to expand...
My comment is that if this happens more than a couple of times during the tournament, it won't matter who is batting at 7. I am not a fan of trying to pick a player to save us in a particular circumstance that ideally should not occur. I understand why you want somebody who can hit a few long balls at 7 but I would not be planning for anything else, we don't have the players to accomplish that.

MrPrez said:
I think Andile has talent, but as you say he hasn't proven his ability against top international sides yet, and I think it could go either way with him.

I'm also not 100% on his bowling - it's looked fairly good against SL but will it be as good when Kohli, Williamson, etc are facing?

I could see him getting smacked around a bit - Markram certainly looked comfortable enough navigating him in the Momentum Cup final.
Click to expand...
I have similar feelings around Pretorius, he has been knocked around a number of times, and his bowling has looked innocuous at times. The only difference between the 2 is that at franchise level Pretorious has been given more opportunity and proven himself. But not convinced that makes him a better option.
 
MrPrez

MrPrez

International Debutant
StephenZA said:
My comment is that if this happens more than a couple of times during the tournament, it won't matter who is batting at 7. I am not a fan of trying to pick a player to save us in a particular circumstance that ideally should not occur. I understand why you want somebody who can hit a few long balls at 7 but I would not be planning for anything else, we don't have the players to accomplish that.
Click to expand...
I back Pretorius to come off in more of those specific situations than Andile. Although if Andile gets it right, it'll be more explosive. ie Andile might hit 40 off 15, but he'll only do it once every 5 or 6 games. Pretorius might hit 25 off 15, but do it 2 or 3 times per 5 matches. I'd rather have the latter.

I have similar feelings around Pretorius, he has been knocked around a number of times, and his bowling has looked innocuous at times. The only difference between the 2 is that at franchise level Pretorious has been given more opportunity and proven himself. But not convinced that makes him a better option.
Click to expand...
Yeah they're both not ideal but I still see Pretorius as the more reliable option.

We honestly should have given Andile more chances up the order to see how he copes.

Ultimately I'm not convinced with either player. I still think the biggest mistake SA has made in ODIs was not turning Duminy into a genuine all-rounder capable of batting at 7 and being our fifth bowler. I think he has the talent to do so. But it's too late now.

Mulder has to be our future all-rounder.
 
Last edited:
Rasimione

Rasimione

U19 Captain
Would it be fair to say we've been struggling to produce all rounders ever since the Franchise system came into play? I don't have statistical prove of this but the number of all rounders we had before the switch has dwindled.
 
MrPrez

MrPrez

International Debutant
Rasimione said:
Would it be fair to say we've been struggling to produce all rounders ever since the Franchise system came into play? I don't have statistical prove of this but the number of all rounders we had before the switch has dwindled.
Click to expand...
I guess. I think we were also blessed with an uncharacteristically sizeable group of top-class all-rounders.

To have Kallis, Klusener, and Pollock all playing at the same time is a luxury that is perhaps unlikely to be repeated, and the likes of Kemp, Morkel, and Hall were also incredibly useful to have.

I doubt there is another country in world cricket who could come close to that list of players within such a relatively brief time-frame. I think our expectations are distorted as a result.
 
Dendarii

Dendarii

International Debutant
MrPrez said:
I guess. I think we were also blessed with an uncharacteristically sizeable group of top-class all-rounders.

To have Kallis, Klusener, and Pollock all playing at the same time is a luxury that is perhaps unlikely to be repeated, and the likes of Kemp, Morkel, and Hall were also incredibly useful to have.

I doubt there is another country in world cricket who could come close to that list of players within such a relatively brief time-frame. I think our expectations are distorted as a result.
Click to expand...
While you make a good point about that peak era for allrounders, South Africa has consistently produced them over the years going all the way back to Aubrey Faulkner. So the recent lack of allrounders is a bit unusual given the history.
 
SeamUp

SeamUp

International Coach
Rice, Kuiper, McMillan, Procter, Kourie - the list is endless.

But what about bowlers who can bat ? That is a worry for SA. Look up the records of P.Pollock, Le Roux, Jefferies and even in the likes of Matthews, Fanie, Dawson, Elworthy. Whilst they not all-rounders their averages were pushing 20. Someone like Rabada and Maharaj definitely should be around there. I think Vern is a proper all-rounder. His mid 20s average does him justice.
 
Last edited:
S

Stefan9

International Debutant
I see Boucher has said he will pay markram plane ticket to get him to the wc. Elgar says there should be no question about taking him.
 
GoodAreasShane

GoodAreasShane

Cricketer Of The Year
Not sure what to make of Rabada with the bat. He has a good eye and a reasonable technique, but he has never made a 50 in any top level cricket. Think there is definitely some room for improvement there, but I haven't seen quite enough of him with the stick to make a informed judgement
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Top