South Africa Domestic season 2010-11

[Howsie]

Even without dominating SS, just by watching watching them bowls its fairly obviosu that they have the raw skills (especially Alexander) to be good test bowlers & trouble qualoty test bats, far more than Tsotsobe ever would.

By watching them in 20/20 cricket?

 

[aussie]

By watching them in 20/20 cricket?

Ye. Made a similar assesment with Aamer in 09 when i first saw him in T20s & well we all know how good he has turned out to be.

 

[taipan1]

?

Tahir unlucky not to be in the test squad also i'd say.

Why? He couldn't even get into the Titan's team last season.

 

[aussie]

Why? He couldn't even get into the Titan's team last season.

Dont know about what occured in SA domestic cricket last season with him. But that didn't stop SA from almost picking vs ENG & to the tour of IND earlier this year, only for them to having to not include him because he wasn't qualified to play for SA as yet.

 

[popepouri]

Why? He couldn't even get into the Titan's team last season.

The nonselection sounded more political than based on performance.

 

[Langeveldt]

Even without dominating SS, just by watching watching them bowls its fairly obviosu that they have the raw skills (especially Alexander) to be good test bowlers & trouble quality test bats, far more than Tsotsobe ever would.

Tsotsobe is just crap, seems like another forced quota selection TBH. Mclaren also should have been picked ahead of him certainly, unless he is injured too.

Also pretty good comparison with Kruger & O'Reilly is must say haha.

Looking ahead to real big series vs IND. Parnell has a lot of work to do IMO. Has talent and everything, but he doesn't swing the red-ball, very much straight up & down ATM. So ATS if fit, De Wet & Alexander should be ahead of him for the 3rd seamer spot behing Steyn/Morkel.

He's played in the same side as Albie Morkel, so definitely not the worst player on the team

 

[aussie]

He's played in the same side as Albie Morkel, so definitely not the worst player on the team

A Morkel although is he also not test quality himself & shouldn't be near the SA test set-up either. Would certainly offer more to any team he is in compared to Tsotsobe for sure.

Tsotsobe competiton for a place in the test squad are De Wet, Alexander, Parnell, McClaren, O'Reilly (maybe others i dont know of also). They all should always be ahead of him in the pecking order.

 

[LadyK]

A Morkel although is he also not test quality himself & shouldn't be near the SA test set-up either. Would certainly offer more to any team he is in compared to Tsotsobe for sure.

Tsotsobe competiton for a place in the test squad are De Wet, Alexander, Parnell, McClaren, O'Reilly (maybe others i dont know of also). They all should always be ahead of him in the pecking order.

I usually just browse the forums, but your assertion of who is competing with who for test places is a bit off. Firstly, Tsotsobe is actually a very, very good first-class bowler. His call-up was very much deserved when it happened. You can't really judge his position there on a 20/20 tournament, when the format isn't his best. He also came off a serious injury towards the end of last season and still needs to get back to full fitness.

Craig Alexander has only just started playing after an exceptionally long lay-off. Add to that first-class stats of 96 wickets @ 33.03 and you have somebody who has a lot of potential, a lot of talent, but not somebody who is ready to play international cricket.

Parnell - fair enough, he's played test cricket and is a great talent, but even his debut was slightly premature. He has yet to take a first-class 5fer and more experience would serve him well, although it's looking likely that he'll be blooded at international level rather than franchise level:P

Ethan O'Reilly has raw talent, yes, but he hasn't even played a four-day match OR an MTN40 for the Lions, and you're here talking about test cricket?

To be honest, if you were being fair to the consistent bowlers in South Africa's domestic system and ignoring whatever biases the national selectors seem to have, here are the options:

Vernon Philander (don't laugh) - 200 wickets @ 20.54 (exceptionally skillful with the new ball)
Quinton Friend - 197 wickets @ 23.61
Rusty Theron - 131 wickets @ 22.85 (NOT a 20/20 specialist)

You could add Friedel de Wet to that list too. Johann Louw also had an exceptional first-class season last year but he's getting on now.

 

[popepouri]

A Morkel although is he also not test quality himself & shouldn't be near the SA test set-up either. Would certainly offer more to any team he is in compared to Tsotsobe for sure.

Tsotsobe competiton for a place in the test squad are De Wet, Alexander, Parnell, McClaren, O'Reilly (maybe others i dont know of also). They all should always be ahead of him in the pecking order.

De Wet - Agreed but doubt he will come back.
Alexander - Not enough experience in FC. Shouldn't throw him to the wolves. Averages 33
Parnell - Not enough experience in FC. Shouldn't throw him to the wolves. Averages 34
McLaren - Declined. Worse than Albie in my book.
O' Reilly - Deacon, Frylinck and Alexander were all picked ahead of him last season.

Lopsy is the most logical pick out of all of them. Averages 24 in FC.

 

[akilana]

De wet should have debuted three years before and Lopsy deserved to be in the squad. He earned it through performance.

 

[LadyK]

De wet should have debuted three years before.

+1

Definitely. Selectors missed their mark there.

 

[aussie]

I usually just browse the forums, but your assertion of who is competing with who for test places is a bit off. Firstly, Tsotsobe is actually a very, very good first-class bowler. His call-up was very much deserved when it happened. You can't really judge his position there on a 20/20 tournament, when the format isn't his best. He also came off a serious injury towards the end of last season and still needs to get back to full fitness.

Craig Alexander has only just started playing after an exceptionally long lay-off. Add to that first-class stats of 96 wickets @ 33.03 and you have somebody who has a lot of potential, a lot of talent, but not somebody who is ready to play international cricket.

Parnell - fair enough, he's played test cricket and is a great talent, but even his debut was slightly premature. He has yet to take a first-class 5fer and more experience would serve him well, although it's looking likely that he'll be blooded at international level rather than franchise level:P

Ethan O'Reilly has raw talent, yes, but he hasn't even played a four-day match OR an MTN40 for the Lions, and you're here talking about test cricket?

To be honest, if you were being fair to the consistent bowlers in South Africa's domestic system and ignoring whatever biases the national selectors seem to have, here are the options:

Vernon Philander (don't laugh) - 200 wickets @ 20.54 (exceptionally skillful with the new ball)
Quinton Friend - 197 wickets @ 23.61
Rusty Theron - 131 wickets @ 22.85 (NOT a 20/20 specialist)

You could add Friedel de Wet to that list too. Johann Louw also had an exceptional first-class season last year but he's getting on now.

Generally it is very unwise to pick a bowler for tests based on T20 form. But you certainly can judge based on basic skilll sets they have displayed, which generally has been basis for players becoming good test cricketers throughout history. For batsmen obviously if you see a bloke with a solid looking technique in a T20, amongst the big hitting thats a good basic indicator for a potential test cricket (even if they haven't played tests as yet).

While for the fast-bowlers & spinners. If the quicks have good pace - a solid action - moves the ball, those a good indicators you want. For the spinners - once they good accuracy/guile & turn - things look encouraging.

Alexander especially showed the good indicators for tests & once fit he should be in the SA test team ahead of Tsotsobe. Esepcially if he can have a good start to the FC season before the Indian series next year.

I know SA FC strucutre is fairly strong etc, but Tsotsobe good record surprises me TBH. Based on what i've seen of Tsotsobe in international cricket, i cannot see him troubling international batsmen in any form of the game consistent. He is straight up & down with no pace - useless.


Have never seen Friend so cant comment. Have seen alot of Philander & Theoron & well ha i have to laugh @ those averages. Neither of them are test bowlers based on what i've seen of them. Philander is hardly ODI quality, very much a bits-and-pieaces all-rounder, while yea i certainly see Theron as nothing more than a T20/ODI specialist - dont think he would be too effective in tests TBH.

De Wet for sure is the real deal. Once fit as i've mentioned before, he should be the 3rd quick behind Steyn/Morkel.

 

[LadyK]

Watch some Supersport Series if you ever get the opportunity. You can have all the potential in the world but that won't win you matches. The guys with those stats, they've developed the skills and delivered the goods consistently. There's no saying for sure who would be successful in test cricket but you can't disregard guys who've proved themselves because they don't look the part - before even having seen them in all formats.

 

[aussie]

De Wet - Agreed but doubt he will come back.
Alexander - Not enough experience in FC. Shouldn't throw him to the wolves. Averages 33
Parnell - Not enough experience in FC. Shouldn't throw him to the wolves. Averages 34
McLaren - Declined. Worse than Albie in my book.
O' Reilly - Deacon, Frylinck and Alexander were all picked ahead of him last season.

Lopsy is the most logical pick out of all of them. Averages 24 in FC.

Fingers crossed De Wet will be back. Lovely bowler.

Many players have been picked for test cricket with much less FC cricket than what Alexander has. Some have adapted to tests right away, while others have taken a while. But id say Alexander has a good start to FC seaon before the India series, he should be picked - especially if De Wet doesn't recover in time.

Parnell has already been into the wolves. Its obvious he has been fast-tracked. ATM it seems fairly clearl the SA selectors see him as the 3rd choice quick behind Steyn/Morkel. So if they can do that with Parnell, they can do the same with Alexander.

Mclaren last i checked looked fairly solid vs ENG in that Jo'Burg test earlier year & test vs WI. Not sure how he has declined since, given SA haven't played any international cricket since TBH.

I wont stress to much of Tsotsobe FC record for reaosns already mentioned. He clearly is not as good as his average suggests. All those other bowlers are clearly better than him.

Watch some Supersport Series if you ever get the opportunity. You can have all the potential in the world but that won't win you matches. The guys with those stats, they've developed the skills and delivered the goods consistently. There's no saying for sure who would be successful in test cricket but you can't disregard guys who've proved themselves because they don't look the part - before even having seen them in all formats

I wont ever see Supersport cricket here in ENG - it doesn't show unfortunately.

You certainly can write off players with good FC records before they play tests, especially if the standard of the FC competition is wayy below that of international cricket. I do that all the time with English players FC performances (especially those who play in Division 2).

SA Franchise cricket is fairly strong, so generally players FC form there are a good guide as to how they may go in tests. But based on what ive seen of Tsotsobe in all formats i dont see an international quality bowler at all for any format.

 

[popepouri]

Generally it is very unwise to pick a bowler for tests based on T20 form. But you certainly can judge based on basic skilll sets they have displayed, which generally has been basis for players becoming good test cricketers throughout history. For batsmen obviously if you see a bloke with a solid looking technique in a T20, amongst the big hitting thats a good basic indicator for a potential test cricket (even if they haven't played tests as yet).

While for the fast-bowlers & spinners. If the quicks have good pace - a solid action - moves the ball, those a good indicators you want. For the spinners - once they good accuracy/guile & turn - things look encouraging.

Alexander especially showed the good indicators for tests & once fit he should be in the SA test team ahead of Tsotsobe. Esepcially if he can have a good start to the FC season before the Indian series next year.

Consistency is another. Another player that should be mentioned is CJ de Villiers who is 6'6, is relatively quick (135kph) and move the ball both ways, however he couldn't land the ball on the helipad if he tried last season and he's declined. Alexander needs to learn to construct spells and make sure he hits the right areas before he even gets a sniff at Test cricket. Same with Parnell.

I know SA FC strucutre is fairly strong etc, but Tsotsobe good record surprises me TBH. Based on what i've seen of Tsotsobe in international cricket, i cannot see him troubling international batsmen in any form of the game consistent. He is straight up & down with no pace - useless.

Two tests in the dead WI pitches is not a fair representation of his potential in tests. Regarding ODIs, he averages 22 and bowled relatively well in the WI. He's a smart bowler. He mixes his pace well and bowls to a plan.

Have never seen Friend so cant comment. Have seen alot of Philander & Theoron & well ha i have to laugh @ those averages. Neither of them are test bowlers based on what i've seen of them. Philander is hardly ODI quality, very much a bits-and-pieaces all-rounder, while yea i certainly see Theron as nothing more than a T20/ODI specialist - dont think he would be too effective in tests TBH.

To be fair, Philander has improved and he looks like he's putting in the hard yards to state his case. He needs a full season in the SSS and the MTN40 to see if he's ready for selection. No doubt he could be the most improved cricketer in SA if he succeeds.

De Wet for sure is the real deal. Once fit as i've mentioned before, he should be the 3rd quick behind Steyn/Morkel.

Which is a shame because he's now 30 and is injury-prone. Who knows if he'll have the pace he had last year.

Parnell has already been into the wolves. Its obvious he has been fast-tracked. ATM it seems fairly clearl the SA selectors see him as the 3rd choice quick behind Steyn/Morkel. So if they can do that with Parnell, they can do the same with Alexander

The fact is he had ODI experience behind him and he's done well, however there is a concern over his potential in tests. As mentioned he does not have a FC 5-fer yet and to be honest, he's not blisteringly quick and he's more up and down than Lopsy.

 

[TT Boy]

I wont stress to much of Tsotsobe FC record for reaosns already mentioned. He clearly is not as good as his average suggests. All those other bowlers are clearly better than him.



I wont ever see Supersport cricket here in ENG - it doesn't show unfortunately.

It doesn’t show in South Africa either...They only get limited overs game and that’s where I came across Alexander a few years back when he embarrassed Andrew Puttick and was touching 150kph. Another guy who is quick but is South Africa’s answer to Fidel Edwards (always injured) is Francois Plaatjies.

Friend of the Dolphins has a bit of pace as well but is probably too suited to home conditions to excel outside of RSA, doesn’t swing the ball much and just relies on pace and bounce. Had a decent tour of Sri Lanka mind.

Attack for Pak should be Steyn, Morkel, Parnell, Botha/Harris and I can’t see that changing before the Indian series. Parnell is a luxury RSA can currently afford with Kallis there as backup and Parnell is the sort of cricketer who can make things happen for instance getting a set Sehwag out with a rank ball miles outside off-stump, At home Tsotsobe has a strong case to play but I wouldn't take him to the Middle East, especially as there is concerns over his fitness and ability to comeback in later spells. But it is encouraging to see a few bowlers knocking about as this time last year in the run up to the England series finding pace bowling options was thin on the ground.

 

[TT Boy]

Rudolph been released by Yorkshire and now free to represent RSA again. Though I’m not how he could be accommodated into the side at present. Smith and Amla are set in stone for the WC; Rudolph’s S/R isn’t good enough for 20/20 cricket, Prince is back to his best position in the test side and Rudolph went Kolpak as he didn’t want to open in 2007, so presumably he isn’t interested in taking over from Virus…

But nice luxury to have him back. Some serious batting reserves knocking about. Ingram rather fortunate to get the call for the 50 over stuff given Elgar's performances in Sri Lanka and the extra spinning option Elgar brings to the side. No arguments with Ingram in 20/20, he can hit sixes and if he fails, he doesn't waste too many balls in doing that.

 

[akilana]

The opportunity for Ingram was limited in the tour to SL.

Ingram was the standout batsman in the short form of the game in the last season in SA and he excelled in the tour to Bangaladesh and in Australia with the development squad.

Elgar is a serious contender for test place and only in SL he showed any resemblance of form in the short format.

 

[LadyK]

Parnell has already been into the wolves. Its obvious he has been fast-tracked. ATM it seems fairly clearl the SA selectors see him as the 3rd choice quick behind Steyn/Morkel. So if they can do that with Parnell, they can do the same with Alexander.

I wont stress to much of Tsotsobe FC record for reaosns already mentioned. He clearly is not as good as his average suggests. All those other bowlers are clearly better than him.

SA Franchise cricket is fairly strong, so generally players FC form there are a good guide as to how they may go in tests. But based on what ive seen of Tsotsobe in all formats i dont see an international quality bowler at all for any format.

To blood both Parnell and Alexander at the same time would be quite risky. Neither are consistent quite yet and it would be difficult to field both of them in the same test team.

Lopsy was great tonight - and bear in mind, he has much more to offer in the longest format. There is a reason why he is in the test side.

 

[TT Boy]

Lopsy was great tonight - and bear in mind, he has much more to offer in the longest format. There is a reason why he is in the test side.

Yeah, not bad for a quota player (Aussie).