Sobers vs Tendulkar

[kyear2]

Honestly mate, its incredibly hypocritical to criticise anyone pushing an agenda given the content of this thread.

So I'm sitting watching the match and noting how India obviously decides who's behind the stumps based on lack of mobility and tenure.

Which led me to what I explained above and what's a willing sacrifice for certain posters here to improve their catching.

This was supposed to be a simple one and an easier sell than Hammond or Kallis, but apparently not.

Then some turned it into who's better, when the premise, for the sake of the scenario, was already set.

No agenda, wanting to take a temperature check and genuinely confused by the results. But probably less so only because there's obviously a heavy cultural slant in this regard.

But everything for him always comes back to three objectives and this directly involved one, and indirectly the other. Probably Sachin was a polarizing choice, but it was the only viable one.

Of course your interjections never help, but why go along when one can seed discord.

 

[subshakerz]

Then some turned it into who's better, when the premise, for the sake of the scenario, was already set.

That premise was your agenda.

No agenda, wanting to take a temperature check and genuinely confused by the results.

Nothing confusing. It's just that your premise was BS.

But everything for him always comes back to three objectives and this directly involved one, and indirectly the other. Probably Sachin was a polarizing choice, but it was the only viable one.

Of course your interjections never help, but why go along when one can seed discord.

Maybe you should stop whining and start actually trying to give evidence that slip masters matter as much as you want us to believe.

Why don't you revisit your drops = runs argument? That really sold well.

 

[shortpitched713]

The premise of the thread feels weird. It seems easier just to compare them as specialist batsmen, and I'd go Sobers in that case as he's the most clear cut BBB candidate of them all, imo.

 

[kyear2]

That premise was your agenda.


Nothing confusing. It's just that your premise was BS.


Maybe you should stop whining and start actually trying to give evidence that slip masters matter as much as you want us to believe.

Why don't you revisit your drops = runs argument? That really sold well.

What's the agenda?

The premise was to see what level of batting would some be willing to give up if it meant you were getting a quality slip in the mix.

You've already said that Kallis is too far behind in primary disciple and many here don't rate Hammond that highly to use him as an example.

What I find hilarious is that you're always bitching about how Wasim was impacted by lack of catching support, but apparently in a scenario where you can give it to him, you would have declined.

Not to add that there's really no drop off to begin with, and there isn't a selector on earth that would make that call. And then there's Coronis, who I can find posts of him stating how Hammond is an automatic for him, in no small part because of his slip catching, but he can't help but to troll, because personal dislike usurps actual positions.

With regards to giving evidence I have two responses.
And I said this already once today, cricket isn't played on spread sheets.
And if I need to provide evidence to you how much it matters, I have to sincerely ask if you've ever watched a cricket match.

Australia lost the first test, due to in no small part a reprieve of Jaiswal being dropped on 50 and then going on to score now much. How much did that drop cost?

But again, because it can't be quantified on a spread sheet, it's ignored by some, not by anyone with any sense mind you.

Again, the premise was ridiculously simple. If you had a team without viable slip options, and you have two relatively similar batters, and with the parameters set that, with one being only slightly better with the bat, but the other being excellent in the cordon, which would you select?

In any event, of you need analysis, your guy Kimber has one, sure you can find it. Or, just maybe you can use your eyes, experiences and a modicum of common sense.

 

[kyear2]

The premise of the thread feels weird. It seems easier just to compare them as specialist batsmen, and I'd go Sobers in that case as he's the most clear cut BBB candidate of them all, imo.

This was neither about Sobers and Sachin, which some have apparently made it, nor batting.

 

[Coronis]

What's the agenda?

The premise was to see what level of batting would some be willing to give up if it meant you were getting a quality slip in the mix.

C’mon mate. Considering how much you push the value of slips your agenda here is clear, to try and enforce that opinion of slip value onto everyone. There is no other point to this thread.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Apparently in the last two years there's been a late career surge for Sachin.

I think with Kohli’s, and to a lesser extent Smith’s, declines, people have started to truly realise what an insane feat Sachin’s batsmanship over that long a period was - teenage infancy, waning years, all the peaks and troughs in between. That near 60 average in the middle portion, which does include some troughs, over almost 160 tests is quite ridiculous.

 

[akilana]

He faced most of them during 90s

It’s not like he mastered them all. He had a middling average vs most of those bowlers.

 

[akilana]

Sachin is getting overrated again. He made runs but he hardly ever took control of a series and won it. At best, he played incredibly well and choked when the going got tougher.

 

[DrWolverine]

I think with Kohli’s, and to a lesser extent Smith’s, declines, people have started to truly realise what an insane feat Sachin’s batsmanship over that long a period was

Sachin was averaging 57.04 in his 178th Test and 22nd year in test cricket so it is hard not be in awe.

 

[subshakerz]

What's the agenda?

Increase the value of slips.

With regards to giving evidence I have two responses.
And I said this already once today, cricket isn't played on spread sheets.
And if I need to provide evidence to you how much it matters, I have to sincerely ask if you've ever watched a cricket match.

But again, because it can't be quantified on a spread sheet, it's ignored by some, not by anyone with any sense mind you.

So you evidence is that you cant bother to quantify it and to trust your judgement that an extra catch from the ace slipper every third of fourth game means the same as a secondary discipline.

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin was averaging 57.04 in his 178th Test and 22nd year in test cricket so it is hard not be in awe.

It's not common for greats to have second peaks after decline. Sachin did, Lara did, Kallis did, Dravid did, a few others.

 

[Johan]

Sachin is getting overrated again. He made runs but he hardly ever took control of a series and won it. At best, he played incredibly well and choked when the going got tougher.

You Sir, are braver than I am

 

[Fanboy375]

It’s not like he mastered them all. He had a middling average vs most of those bowlers.

So did other batters.I mean that's why they are called op bowlers.

 

[shortpitched713]

Increase the value of slips.

Spot on, it seems.

 

[shortpitched713]

This was neither about Sobers and Sachin, which some have apparently made it, nor batting.

Bro what. You wrote up a whole OP with a scenario and poll all plastered with these 2 names, and you're telling me the whole thing isn't about either one of them?!

 

[Coronis]

Bro what. You wrote up a whole OP with a scenario and poll all plastered with these 2 names, and you're telling me the whole thing isn't about either one of them?!

Of course not. Its just making a thread to again try to get people to come around to his thinking about how important slips are without outright without turning off users by thinking “oh another slips thread” and using clickbait batsmen

Welcome beyond the veil.

 

[subshakerz]

Sachin is getting overrated again. He made runs but he hardly ever took control of a series and won it. At best, he played incredibly well and choked when the going got tougher.

These feel like 90s critiques of Tendulkar. He addressed all these issues by the end of his career.

 

[kyear2]

C’mon mate. Considering how much you push the value of slips your agenda here is clear, to try and enforce that opinion of slip value onto everyone. There is no other point to this thread.

It was to see what the response would be. It was left purposely vague as not to push it in any direction.

Watching the two matches that were going on it was apparent how some teams take it much more seriously than others, and seeing the amount of dropped catches, it was quite relevant.

And what's your purpose, besides snide comments, and your agenda besides personal grievances.

 

[kyear2]

I think with Kohli’s, and to a lesser extent Smith’s, declines, people have started to truly realise what an insane feat Sachin’s batsmanship over that long a period was - teenage infancy, waning years, all the peaks and troughs in between. That near 60 average in the middle portion, which does include some troughs, over almost 160 tests is quite ridiculous.

That's definitely not it.

It's actually quite evident. Two years ago he was 4th on the forum, this year he beat out Hobbs by 1 vote for 2nd.

He was arguably better than Lara over his career, with both having their ebbs, but now it's being pushed by quite a few that he's levels above everyone else