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Sobers rates Gavaskar as the greatest batsman

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sobers has become a rather bitter man in recent years as you can tell from the latter part of that interview.

His views on Gavaskar seem to have polarised, or perhaps there's an element of commercialism at work - to be fair to him he has always rated Sunny highly but as far as I can see he has always in the past rated him on a par with Bradman, Neil Harvey, Rohan Kanhai, Everton Weekes and Hanif Mohammad
 

AaronK

State Regular
lol whattttttttttttttttttttttt

KP, Gilly and Sehwag? really? not in test brathah.

P.S. For the record, I am talking about Gilly the batsman, not the player.
yes.. I would pick both KP and Gilly ahead of Gavaskar in any formate purely as a batsman..

I didn't mention Sehwag's name because certainly with the number of runs he has been piling up lately and for the past couple of years.. i thought he has done enough in test to establish himselve as one of the greatest... not as good as lara and Sachin but definatly better than both Gavasker and Boycott...

Personal opinion....great batsman are those who upon arriving at the crease... bowlers are under pressure bowling to them... and they have ability to score quick and dominate them.. with aggression.. not those who score slow and let bowler dominate them...
 

Ilovecric

U19 Cricketer
Not a bad logic to say the man who did the best against the best bowling attack in history is the best batsman.

Maybe sobers doesn't believe he would have been able to do what Gavaskar did against WI bowling attack.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Not a bad logic to say the man who did the best against the best bowling attack in history is the best batsman.

Maybe sobers doesn't believe he would have been able to do what Gavaskar did against WI bowling attack.
It's not what he said though. He said he's the best batsman he's seen, not the best batsman in history. Though Sir Gary's getting on a bit, and has seen a lot of players by now.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Sobers > Gavaskar. Has long been identified as having trouble with modesty, has our Sir Garfield.
He's been known for embellishing re his own era though IIRC.

Personally, don't think Gavaskar is on tier 1 of the best batsmen after Bradman.

Not a bad logic to say the man who did the best against the best bowling attack in history is the best batsman.

Maybe sobers doesn't believe he would have been able to do what Gavaskar did against WI bowling attack.
It's just that this is a falsehood. Gavaskar's average re the great WIndies attack is pretty, well, average.
 

jaideep

U19 12th Man
Gavaskar was not even the best batsman of his era because greg chappell and viv richards were better than him.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
First and foremost, Sobers is entitled to his opinion and I for one have great regard for his opinions even if they are not always the same as oneself.

Secondly, Sobers is not alone in rating Gavaskar that high many others have done the same. Hutton may have written before the modern day greats but he did, during Gavaskar's playing days compare him with Don Bradman.

Finally, Sobers is indeed a very modest man but I dont see how that is relevant for this debate. What may be relevant (and that maybe should be in bold capitals) is his apparent disillusionment with West Indies cricket in the last 20-30 years. He has often expressed his concern about Lara's problems and even offered his advise and from his last book one can see that he was disappointed that no one seemed to be interested in taking it or involving him in West Indies cricket's problems. Again, this may not have anything to do with the opinion he has expressed about Gavaskar but there is a tendency, amongst all of us, to form an opinion about cricketers with whom one has found faults (rightly in the case of Lara from Sobers) more than once.

On people who think Gavaskar is boring or not even worth comparison with the modern day greats let me just say that people, including great cricketers, look at different aspects of a cricketers skill sets to form their opinions about them. There are clearly aspects of Gavaskar's batting that make him superior to, say, Tendulkar, in those aspects of batting. Just as there are aspects of Tendulkar's batting that show him to be better. If one cant even see this much then we do not have Sir Garfield to blame for that.

Please also remember that the context has changed since the 70's and 80's, when Gavaskar played, to the 90's and 2000's when Sachin, Lara etc did. The strike rates around the world have sky-rocketted overall. Batsmen, including openers, are not recognisable from those of 20-30 years before. The reasons for the same are well known and have been discussed threadbare here in the past and still are.

Last but not least Gavaskar came in to open the batting for a country that was one of the weakest batting sides in the world throughout its cricketing history till then. Even its most prolific batsmen were considered 'rabbits' by the fast bowlers around the world. India could not find two openers of any class to play in Tests let alone get a world class pair. All types of people were asked to open the batting because the seniors would **** in their pants at the sight of a fast bowler. And, of course, we hardly won anything.

It is in this context that Gavaskar made his debut as an Indian opener. That context never left him as a batsman or as captain of India. He made it a point to bat to ensure, to the extent he alone could do so, that his country did not lose. Those of us who saw him bat for his University and those lucky enough to see him bat in that West Indies tour will tell you of what a fabulous stroke player he was in his younger days. He hooked beautifully for those who may not know that. He continued to be a great stroke player but he changed his attitude to bowling. Gavaskar became one of the best spotters of a lose ball and I do not know of another batsman with a better judgement in this regard. He could receive an hour or two of accurate good bowling and defend everything in copybook style and yet the single half volley or short-pitched ball would be hit with pin point precision through the fielders. It was uncanny.

As the Indian batting, so soon after his fabulous debut, came to rely so heavily on him he cut out his hooking and stopped hitting the good deliveries which we today see from the top batsmen. But his context was different as were his times.

I have written on this forum of Gavaskar not having always faced the best fast bowlers in the world but I do not, as some for who everything is black and white think, for a second consider Gavaskar to be anything but one of the greatest openers of all time. If that does not put him in contention for comparison with all time greats one doesn't know what does.

To appreciate batsmen like Gavaskar (and Hanif Mohammad before him) we need to have better points of reference than Hayden and Sehwag or fast bowling of the type that exists today not to speak of the protection that is available to all batsmen today.

To dismiss someone like Gavaskar as a boring batsman is... (let it be unsaid) but let me tell you that I would any day wish to watch Gavaskar playing Imran, Lillee or Andy Roberts and scoring a century in two sessions than watch Sehwag score a triple century in three. If you were able to do that you too would learn more about batting (and great bowling) than by watching the latter.
 
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wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
I don't think the fact that Gavaskar was a defensive batsman goes against him - Just the fact that he was apparently an incredibly selfish player who always put himself before the team.

If one of the Australian players purposely lost a game for us, I would definately not support them or endorse the fact that they are one of the best players of alltime. What Gavaskar did in 1975 was no worse then Hansie Cronje.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
First and foremost, Sobers is entitled to his opinion and I for one have great regard for his opinions even if they are not always the same as oneself.

Secondly, Sobers is not alone in rating Gavaskar that high many others have done the same. Hutton may have written before the modern day greats but he did, during Gavaskar's playing days compare him with Don Bradman.

Finally, Sobers is indeed a very modest man but I dont see how that is relevant for this debate. What may be relevant (and that maybe should be in bold capitals) is his apparent disillusionment with West Indies cricket in the last 20-30 years. He has often expressed his concern about Lara's problems and even offered his advise and from his last book one can see that he was disappointed that no one seemed to be interested in taking it or involving him in West Indies cricket's problems. Again, this may not have anything to do with the opinion he has expressed about Gavaskar but there is a tendency, amongst all of us, to form an opinion about cricketers with whom one has found faults (rightly in the case of Lara from Sobers) more than once.

On people who think Gavaskar is boring or not even worth comparison with the modern day greats let me just say that people, including great cricketers, look at different aspects of a cricketers skill sets to form their opinions about them. There are clearly aspects of Gavaskar's batting that make him superior to, say, Tendulkar, in those aspects of batting. Just as there are aspects of Tendulkar's batting that show him to be better. If one cant even see this much then we do not have Sir Garfield to blame for that.

Please also remember that the context has changed since the 70's and 80's, when Gavaskar played, to the 90's and 2000's when Sachin, Lara etc did. The strike rates around the world have sky-rocketted overall. Batsmen, including openers, are not recognisable from those of 20-30 years before. The reasons for the same are well known and have been discussed threadbare here in the past and still are.

Last but not least Gavaskar came in to open the batting for a country that was one of the weakest batting sides in the world throughout its cricketing history till then. Even its most prolific batsmen were considered 'rabbits' by the fast bowlers around the world. India could not find two openers of any class to play in Tests let alone get a world class pair. All types of people were asked to open the batting because the seniors would **** in their pants at the sight of a fast bowler. And, of course, we hardly won anything.

It is in this context that Gavaskar made his debut as an Indian opener. That context never left him as a batsman or as captain of India. He made it a point to bat to ensure, to the extent he alone could do so, that his country did not lose. Those of us who saw him bat for his University and those lucky enough to see him bat in that West Indies tour will tell you of what a fabulous stroke player he was in his younger days. He hooked beautifully for those who may not know that. He continued to be a great stroke player but he changed his attitude to bowling. Gavaskar became one of the best spotters of a lose ball and I do not know of another batsman with a better judgement in this regard. He could receive an hour or two of accurate good bowling and defend everything in copybook style and yet the single half volley or short-pitched ball would be hit with pin point precision through the fielders. It was uncanny.

As the Indian batting, so soon after his fabulous debut, came to rely so heavily on him he cut out his hooking and stopped hitting the good deliveries which we today see from the top batsmen. But his context was different as were his times.

I have written on this forum of Gavaskar not having always faced the best fast bowlers in the world but I do not, as some for who everything is black and white think, for a second consider Gavaskar to be anything but one of the greatest openers of all time. If that does not put him in contention for comparison with all time greats one doesn't know what does.

To appreciate batsmen like Gavaskar (and Hanif Mohammad before him) we need to have better points of reference than Hayden and Sehwag or fast bowling of the type that exists today not to speak of the protection that is available to all batsmen today.

To dismiss someone like Gavaskar as a boring batsman is... (let it be unsaid) but let me tell you that I would any day wish to watch Gavaskar playing Imran, Lillee or Andy Roberts and scoring a century in two sessions than watch Sehwag score a triple century in three. If you were able to do that you too would learn more about batting (and great bowling) than by watching the latter.

**** me dead.. Learn more about cricket and perspective reading one of your posts than nearly anyone else's, and that's not meant to slag anyone else by any stretch.

Bring back the awards just to anoint this the best post I've read in CC in ages. Kudos.
 

DingDong

State Captain
First and foremost, Sobers is entitled to his opinion and I for one have great regard for his opinions even if they are not always the same as oneself.

Secondly, Sobers is not alone in rating Gavaskar that high many others have done the same. Hutton may have written before the modern day greats but he did, during Gavaskar's playing days compare him with Don Bradman.

Finally, Sobers is indeed a very modest man but I dont see how that is relevant for this debate. What may be relevant (and that maybe should be in bold capitals) is his apparent disillusionment with West Indies cricket in the last 20-30 years. He has often expressed his concern about Lara's problems and even offered his advise and from his last book one can see that he was disappointed that no one seemed to be interested in taking it or involving him in West Indies cricket's problems. Again, this may not have anything to do with the opinion he has expressed about Gavaskar but there is a tendency, amongst all of us, to form an opinion about cricketers with whom one has found faults (rightly in the case of Lara from Sobers) more than once.

On people who think Gavaskar is boring or not even worth comparison with the modern day greats let me just say that people, including great cricketers, look at different aspects of a cricketers skill sets to form their opinions about them. There are clearly aspects of Gavaskar's batting that make him superior to, say, Tendulkar, in those aspects of batting. Just as there are aspects of Tendulkar's batting that show him to be better. If one cant even see this much then we do not have Sir Garfield to blame for that.

Please also remember that the context has changed since the 70's and 80's, when Gavaskar played, to the 90's and 2000's when Sachin, Lara etc did. The strike rates around the world have sky-rocketted overall. Batsmen, including openers, are not recognisable from those of 20-30 years before. The reasons for the same are well known and have been discussed threadbare here in the past and still are.

Last but not least Gavaskar came in to open the batting for a country that was one of the weakest batting sides in the world throughout its cricketing history till then. Even its most prolific batsmen were considered 'rabbits' by the fast bowlers around the world. India could not find two openers of any class to play in Tests let alone get a world class pair. All types of people were asked to open the batting because the seniors would **** in their pants at the sight of a fast bowler. And, of course, we hardly won anything.

It is in this context that Gavaskar made his debut as an Indian opener. That context never left him as a batsman or as captain of India. He made it a point to bat to ensure, to the extent he alone could do so, that his country did not lose. Those of us who saw him bat for his University and those lucky enough to see him bat in that West Indies tour will tell you of what a fabulous stroke player he was in his younger days. He hooked beautifully for those who may not know that. He continued to be a great stroke player but he changed his attitude to bowling. Gavaskar became one of the best spotters of a lose ball and I do not know of another batsman with a better judgement in this regard. He could receive an hour or two of accurate good bowling and defend everything in copybook style and yet the single half volley or short-pitched ball would be hit with pin point precision through the fielders. It was uncanny.

As the Indian batting, so soon after his fabulous debut, came to rely so heavily on him he cut out his hooking and stopped hitting the good deliveries which we today see from the top batsmen. But his context was different as were his times.

I have written on this forum of Gavaskar not having always faced the best fast bowlers in the world but I do not, as some for who everything is black and white think, for a second consider Gavaskar to be anything but one of the greatest openers of all time. If that does not put him in contention for comparison with all time greats one doesn't know what does.

To appreciate batsmen like Gavaskar (and Hanif Mohammad before him) we need to have better points of reference than Hayden and Sehwag or fast bowling of the type that exists today not to speak of the protection that is available to all batsmen today.

To dismiss someone like Gavaskar as a boring batsman is... (let it be unsaid) but let me tell you that I would any day wish to watch Gavaskar playing Imran, Lillee or Andy Roberts and scoring a century in two sessions than watch Sehwag score a triple century in three. If you were able to do that you too would learn more about batting (and great bowling) than by watching the latter.
wow that really is a great post mate. can't say the same about a couple of people who posted before and after you...
 

The Sean

Cricketer Of The Year
This young SJS bloke could turn into a decent contributor if he just put a little more thought and perspective into his posts. :ph34r:

Seriously, WAG. :notworthy
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Gavaskar was indeed great, and Sobers knows his ****. So if he reckons he's the best batsman he saw, that's his opinion.

Just like if Lara reckons Warne is the best bowler he faced, that's his opinion.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Imran Khan on Gavaskar

In the 1950s and 1960s, Indian batsmen had a reputation for
avoiding fast bowling, and some of them were even known to
back away towards square leg if a quick bowler came on.
Gavaskar changed all this. He played pace with relative
ease: he could hook if he wanted to, but more often, he
would leave the bouncer alone and watch it sail by. His
defence is well organised, and he is a very intelligent
batsman who performs well under pressure. Indeed he has
played some of his best innings under intense pressure:
twoce India has made a good fist of chasing over 400 runs to
win a Test, and on both occasions, Gavaskar was the major
factor. Agains the West Indies in Port of Spain in 1975-6,
Gavaskar scored 102 to set his side on the way to 406-4, the
highest score ever made to win a test. And at the Oval in
1979 he hit a magnificent 221 as India chased 438. They fell
a few runs short of improving their record, but drew the
match.

The best innings I ever saw him play was his 96 at
Bangalore, in what turned out to be his final test. It was
one of the most difficult pitches I have ever seen - the
ball was turning square, bouncing awkwardly and sometimes
keeping low. Pakistan were bowled out for 116 in their first
innings, after which India made 145. Thanks to gritty play
by our tail enders, we set India 221 to win, and Gavaskar
played an incredible innings. Both teams knew that the match
would be over if Gavaskar was out, which was what eventually
happened: Iqbal Qasim had him caught, just four short of
what would have been his thirty-fifth Test century.
He is the master of an unusual shot: a type of late flick
which he plays with great control between square leg and
midwicket, I have never seen any other batsman play this
shot with such precision. It brings him a lot of runs, which
is one reason why he can keep the scoreboard ticking over.
Although he has had to cut out a lot of his more risky shots
in the team's interest, he can be brilliant when he lets
himself go, and I have seen him outscore stroke makers like
Srikkanth on occasions.


I batted with him for a long time during the MCC
bicentennial match at Lord's in 1987. He scored 188, I made
82, and we put on 180 for the fifth wicket. I found it a
revelation to see how he tackled certain bowlers, and how he
understood the game. He is a master, and I am afraid that
Indian cricket will struggle to replace him adequately.​
 

AaronK

State Regular
Did you actually see him bat live (more than one innings) ?
After reading your fantastic post.. It seems like u have watched that match.. So inform us what exactly was going on on that match? 36 of 174 balls... and not only Gavasker but B.Patal scoring 16 of 57 balls while chasing a target of over 300.. sounds very fishy..
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
It's just that this is a falsehood. Gavaskar's average re the great WIndies attack is pretty, well, average.
I never thought I'd find myself saying this, but can you give us some stats on that please Ikki? Seriously.
 

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