So what does the future hold for West Indies?

[WindieWeathers]

Lol. I wasn't mocking Holder; I was mocking your line of argument more than anything. Even if I was mocking Holder though, it doesn't make Hazelwood in any way relevant unless I make some sort of comparison between them. I wasn't suggesting that Hazelwood was better than Holder (which probably should have been obvious given I didn't mention Hazelwood at all..); I was suggesting that impressing in one unofficial T20 game against Lancashire shouldn't get someone any closer to a Test team.

CricketWeb is a place to objectively discuss cricket; not represent your team in the great supporters war.

Come on now do you really think i'm praising Holder on the evidence of one T20 game? i only mentioned that game against Lancashire in passing, like a "what he's up to right now" report, the English commentators were raving about him which is the only reason why i mentioned it, the bottom line is he was a monster in the recent u19 world cup, he's in the Barbados squad and is most likely gonna be picked for the A-team tours coming up, so the selectors are clearly seeing something in him, how fast he progresses is up to him but i've seen enough to suggest that it won't be long before he's knocking on the WI door that's for sure.

 

[Craig]

I wasn't asking NZ fans!!

My post was in jest.

 

[Flem274*]

I told you there's mixed reviews regarding Holder's pace, i already said they've got very different styles but what's special about Holder is the length he bowls and the way he can swing the ball too, he's also got a mean bouncer from that height. technically the kid is sound, all he needs now is experience at the higher levels of the game IMO which is why i'm looking forward to seeing how he does for the A-team if/when he's selected.

If the speed guns at the under 19 cup were wrong, then there's some very, very quick bowlers out there. Bevan Small, Nathan Buck and Josh Hazelwood will be lightning.

I think its far more likely they were accurate. The high end readings from the quicker bowlers seemed about right for their age group.

 

[WindieWeathers]

My post was in jest.

I know Craig, and so was mine .

 

[maxtop123]

Who knows what the future holds? WI cricket will likely go forward or not without the WICB. It always has. Even the incremental improvemnts in Tests since Gayle becane captain has nothing to do with WICB. It will be more down to the individual territories to develop their talent. The stronger the talent in each territory the stronger competition there will be and hence a stronger WI. I personally feel that we have some good talent coming through and if they develop in the next year to two years, there will be greater depth. Batsmen such as Darren Bravo, Horace Miller , Kraigg Braithwaite and Justin Guillen as well as quicks such as Jason Dawes, Brandon Bess, Nelon Pascal,Delorn Johnson, Shannon Gabriel and a not so quick who could develop pace in Jason Holder among others in the wings such as Dawnley Grant, Ricardo Dacres, Keon Joseph, Ruel Braithwaite.

The SA series we're better off on helpful pitches since we struggle on flat ones. Our batsmen will simply have to stand up and bat.

Marlon Samuels: hope he will have learned. The talent was always there but he has been very much like his idol CarlHooper.

 

[shivfan]

Are you not reading my posts properly now Mike? i said Deonarine has "WORKED WITH GIBSON and impressed", has Nash worked with Gibson yet?

So, that is what you're pinning your hopes on....

You can't argue against Nash's inclusion on the basis of his Test stats in his latest Test series. So, you're hoping against hope that Gibson will 'work' with Nash, and will not be impressed with him!

That's clutching at straws....

 

[shivfan]

Different day but you're still spinning the same record i see Mike!! , erm so what exactly was Roach doing before he got into the test team? was he taking wicket after wicket for Barbados? nope, these young bowlers have that thing called TALENT, i guess i shouldn't be surprised that you're against the youngsters getting a chance because you've apparently set your heart on "grandpa" Pedro Collins getting a recall!!, the same man who Lionel Baker totally blew out of the water last season!! , even if i wanted youngsters like Brandon Bess or Nelon Pascal to get a chance, who've played loads of FC cricket and have taken wickets you'd still find excuses, because like i've said in the past you just can't let go of the status quo.

Can Lionel Baker blow anyone out of the water?

Roach has been playing FC cricket for over two years now, and he's played 24 matches, and taken 67 wickets at an average of 32. There's a big difference between what Roach did before he got his callup into the strike-ravaged WI side against Bangladesh, and what Gabriel and Holder have done so far. In fact, Roach had already played some ODIs for the WI before playing against Bangladesh.

 

[shivfan]

Why do people argue and debate the quality of West Indian cricketers as if that is the sole determining factor in the West Indian cricketing future?

Not until the West Indian administration improves and becomes more professional and accountable will West Indian cricket improve. Same with Pakistan. We've had a whole generation of players show potential but fall well short. Franklyn Rose and Reon King spring to mind. West Indies have not had a decent fast bowler debut since Ian Bishop.

Compare that to Australia. Australia did not get to where it is purely by talent alone. If you look back Australia went from one of the best sporting nations in the world up until the mid 70's to a mediocre one. 1976 Montreal Olympics Australia won 0 gold medals. We went from the best mens tennis country to not winning a grand slam for a decade and 7 years between 1980-87 when you include men and women. And the decline of Australian cricket is well known.

But if you look at the changes in sport (and entertainment) in the mid to late 70's things changed. Things became much more professional and Australia was caught out. As a result things like the AIS, Cricket Academy were built and sport overall became more professional.

But I see little changes in West Indian cricket. They still seem to be stuck in their glory days of the past. It could be a money thing where they dont have enough to go fully professional in all aspects. It could be a population thing, the countries of West Indies tally around 4 million people I think. Similar to that of NZ. Problems because West Indies is a group of nations rather than 1 single country.

Well said....

Talent alone won't do it. That's why I'm not getting carried away by the promise shown by Holder, Brathwaite and Gabriel. There's still a long road to travel.

 

[WindieWeathers]

So, that is what you're pinning your hopes on....

You can't argue against Nash's inclusion on the basis of his Test stats in his latest Test series. So, you're hoping against hope that Gibson will 'work' with Nash, and will not be impressed with him!

That's clutching at straws....

Putting words in my mouth again Mike? well i never , i've always maintained that it should be Nash OR Shiv, if you want Nash in the side so badly then fair enough lets leave out "out of form for a year" Shiv then? but oh no i forgot that's another one of your "heroes" so that won't do, you'd rather sacrifice a bowler to fit your favorites in!! , bottom line is Gibson is no fool, i'm 100 percent confident that Deo will be in the side, so either way someone is gonna miss out.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Can Lionel Baker blow anyone out of the water?

Roach has been playing FC cricket for over two years now, and he's played 24 matches, and taken 67 wickets at an average of 32. There's a big difference between what Roach did before he got his callup into the strike-ravaged WI side against Bangladesh, and what Gabriel and Holder have done so far. In fact, Roach had already played some ODIs for the WI before playing against Bangladesh.

Apparently he can because Bakers Fc stats in the last domestic season where MUCH BETTER than your man Collins!!, anyway what did Edwards do before he got picked for WI then Mike? you see we can play this game all day man, Roach wasn't anything special before he made his international debut and everyone knows it, Holder and Gabriel are being hyped up because they've got TALENT, just like Brathwaite has.

 

[Craig]

Well if it's out of Chanderpaul or Nash for a batting spot, we know who will get it, and it isn't a Queenslander turned Jamaican. Windie, what is your thoughts on Sarwan? I see him as bit of an under achiever, he cleaned up against England, but those pitches were flatter then a national highway FFS. Even Ramdin scored a century.

 

[marc71178]

If it's really down to a toss up between Nash and Shiv for a batting spot then they're either playing a long tail or Viv, BCL and Sir Garry are coming back into the side.

 

[shivfan]

Well if it's out of Chanderpaul or Nash for a batting spot, we know who will get it, and it isn't a Queenslander turned Jamaican. Windie, what is your thoughts on Sarwan? I see him as bit of an under achiever, he cleaned up against England, but those pitches were flatter then a national highway FFS. Even Ramdin scored a century.

Only Windie would think it's between Nash and Shiv for one place....

As roseboy correctly said, both Shiv and Nash will be among the first few names jotted down on the team sheet for the first Test against South Africa by Gibson. Only injury would prevent either of them from playing....

I'm still waiting for Windie to beat me money on this.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Well if it's out of Chanderpaul or Nash for a batting spot, we know who will get it, and it isn't a Queenslander turned Jamaican. Windie, what is your thoughts on Sarwan? I see him as bit of an under achiever, he cleaned up against England, but those pitches were flatter then a national highway FFS. Even Ramdin scored a century.

Yeah Craig you have a point about Sarwan, he made a very good start to his test career, then had what i like to call a "Gayle spell" when he was so inconsistent, since the NZ tests though he did seem to find his form again and he'd certainly be one of the first names on the team sheet for me, along with Deo he's probably our best player against spin too.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Only Windie would think it's between Nash and Shiv for one place....

As roseboy correctly said, both Shiv and Nash will be among the first few names jotted down on the team sheet for the first Test against South Africa by Gibson. Only injury would prevent either of them from playing....

I'm still waiting for Windie to beat me money on this.

As i've said many times already no-one knows what Gibson is thinking Mike , the man is bound to have HIS OWN IDEAS, Deo has impressed him without a shadow of a doubt so like i said someone is gonna miss out, he won't do what you've suggest either and drop a bowler to fit Nash, Shiv and Deo in the side, it just won't happen.

 

[Craig]

If it's really down to a toss up between Nash and Shiv for a batting spot then they're either playing a long tail or Viv, BCL and Sir Garry are coming back into the side.

Cloning FTW.

 

[Craig]

As i've said many times already no-one knows what Gibson is thinking Mike , the man is bound to have HIS OWN IDEAS, Deo has impressed him without a shadow of a doubt so like i said someone is gonna miss out, he won't do what you've suggest either and drop a bowler to fit Nash, Shiv and Deo in the side, it just won't happen.

Windie, I don't always agree with you, but it is good to have you around. CW was originally set up to cover Australian, New Zealand, and (IIRC) England cricket, gradually it is just got bigger over the years, but still, the West Indies has been under represented for far too long on this site.

 

[WindieWeathers]

Windie, I don't always agree with you, but it is good to have you around. CW was originally set up to cover Australian, New Zealand, and (IIRC) England cricket, gradually it is just got bigger over the years, but still, the West Indies has been under represented for far too long on this site.

Cheers Craig , it's good to know there's at least one person who appreciates my contribution!!, when i first posted here and mentioned WI the silence was deafening! . but i'm proud to have played a part in broadening the conversation around here, sometimes things get heated but that's just life isn't it? we're all passionate about cricket and it would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time.

 

[GotSpin]

Cheers Craig , it's good to know there's at least one person who appreciates my contribution!!, when i first posted here and mentioned WI the silence was deafening! . but i'm proud to have played a part in broading the conversation around here, sometimes things get heated but that's just life isn't it? we're all passionate about cricket and it would be very boring if everyone agreed all the time.

Don't worry, you've ensured that the Windies have been brought up in a whole lot of topics

But in all fairness I agree with da craig. It's always interesting to read of views that stray from the norm.

 

[Nate]

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