So the ICC evidence is finally in - and apparently even Glen McGrath chucks...

[wellAlbidarned]

What's flawed about that?

 

[Daemon]

Don't see what else they can do

 

[vic_orthdox]

I'm more on the Brumby side of things.

The dude from Pakistan who bowled pace, Shabbir Ahmed, could bowl in testing conditions and satisfy the testing. What he would have been using is an action that isn't completely "natural" to him, if he focuses on keeping his arm straight he can still get nearly as much pace on the ball, much like a spinner if they are continually focusing on keeping their arm straight and spinning the ball hard.

But they aren't being tested on the fourth day of a Test, and the reversion back to what is easiest, or what is natural, is easy to make. The other thing for spinners is that a change in action can also lead to a similar amount of work on the ball, but different angles on the ball which may neuter the bowler's natural line and length, making it harder for him to get turn/drift/etc. If he was more effective with his old action, and has passed the testing, what incentive is there to use an action that may make you a less effective bowler.

Basically, guys of this sort of ability can bowl with different actions all the time and get similar revolutions/pace on the ball, but under the stress of game conditions you go to what comes naturally/easiest.

EDIT: meh, that's a Friday evening "bleurgh" of ideas, rather than anything that will make much sense, but ... yeah. Sort of my opinion.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

If they can consistently reproduce match-like deliveries in the lab across a large sample size with a legal action, then there's no valid reason to conclude that they've been chucking during matches. That's the bottom line, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Daemon]

If they can consistently reproduce match-like deliveries in the lab across a large sample size with a legal action, then there's no valid reason to conclude that they've been chucking during matches. That's the bottom line, as far as I'm concerned.

Same here. Too many ifs and maybes and speculation if you believe otherwise imo.

 

[uvelocity]

Same here. Too many ifs and maybes and speculation if you believe otherwise imo.

speculation on both sides because nobody here really knows what the testing procedure includes in any useful detail.

 

[Daemon]

speculation on both sides because nobody here really knows what the testing procedure includes in any useful detail.

It's not speculation if you decide to believe what the person in charge of testing has told you what they've been doing is it?

 

[Son Of Coco]

It's not speculation if you decide to believe what the person in charge of testing has told you what they've been doing is it?

Can you outline this in exact detail though? Complete with exactly how they measure the amount of revs in a game and compare this as well as the bowlers actions? If you say they bowl exactly the same way in testing, then you're saying there's no difference in any single detail of what they do.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

If that's the attitude you're going to take. Either believe that there's some massive conspiracy to let random bowlers chuck, or believe the words of some top notch sporting scientists who've done this sort of **** their whole lives. I know who I'm with tbh.

 

[benchmark00]

Brumbeh loves his suspect actions.

 

[Son Of Coco]

If that's the attitude you're going to take. Either believe that there's some massive conspiracy to let random bowlers chuck, or believe the words of some top notch sporting scientists who've done this sort of **** their whole lives. I know who I'm with tbh.

Firstly, they probably haven't. and secondly, there's no conspiracy theory just some people asking exactly what happens.

Basically it comes down to this - if you have bowlers from your home country who are called then you're happy not to ask any questions. If you don't, you're more likely to ask more about what's going on.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

As far as I know, no bowlers from NZ have ever gone in for testing. So no-one can play the bias card against me. Yeah I know it's just people asking questions, it just seems that it's the same ones being answered over and over without people getting anywhere.

 

[smash84]

If that's the attitude you're going to take. Either believe that there's some massive conspiracy to let random bowlers chuck, or believe the words of some top notch sporting scientists who've done this sort of **** their whole lives. I know who I'm with tbh.

This

 

[Son Of Coco]

As far as I know, no bowlers from NZ have ever gone in for testing. So no-one can play the bias card against me. Yeah I know it's just people asking questions, it just seems that it's the same ones being answered over and over without people getting anywhere.

That would probably be considered a waste of money

Nobody's answered how they match the revolutions and action exactly yet as far as I know...video's been mentioned, and that's fair enough. But if anyone knows how they ensure it's absolutely exact then that'd be great to know.

I assume they take video from different parts of the match too.

 

[Daemon]

That would probably be considered a waste of money

Nobody's answered how they match the revolutions and action exactly yet as far as I know...video's been mentioned, and that's fair enough. But if anyone knows how they ensure it's absolutely exact then that'd be great to know.

I assume they take video from different parts of the match too.

I don't know, and that's why I just rather go by the words of the expert rather than think they're lying or have . It's sort of like believing in some scientific theory which I don't understand. I'd rather believe the silentstrikers of the world than believe anything else, rather than think they're all lying and out to fool us.

As for

Basically it comes down to this - if you have bowlers from your home country who are called then you're happy not to ask any questions. If you don't, you're more likely to ask more about what's going on.

It's not about asking questions. It's about ignoring the answers.

As for bias, take PEWS and welAlbidarned for example. Same for me, I don't know whether any Indian spinner has been called for chucking besides Harbhajan, and I hate that stupid ****.

(apologize if i come across as a bit snide btw)

 

[Son Of Coco]

I don't know, and that's why I just rather go by the words of the expert rather than think they're lying or have . It's sort of like believing in some scientific theory which I don't understand. I'd rather believe the silentstrikers of the world than believe anything else, rather than think they're all lying and out to fool us.

As for



It's not about asking questions. It's about ignoring the answers.

As for bias, take PEWS and welAlbidarned for example. Same for me, I don't know whether any Indian spinner has been called for chucking besides Harbhajan, and I hate that stupid ****.

(apologize if i come across as a bit snide btw)

So in the first half of this post you say you don't know the answers, and in the second half you say we've been ignoring them...I think this is why it gets confusing. Personally, I'd prefer to ask questions about it and understand it.

 

[Daemon]

So in the first half of this post you say you don't know the answers, and in the second half you say we've been ignoring them...I think this is why it gets confusing. Personally, I'd prefer to ask questions about it and understand it.

The part where I said I don't know refers to how exactly the testing is done. The 'ignoring answers' part is what people seem to be doing (not accusing anyone in particular) with regards to PEWS' last post in this thread.

Like I've said before I don't have any problems with the view that the rule itself should be changed, as well as the points that Zaremba brought up earlier.

 

[Son Of Coco]

The part where I said I don't know refers to how exactly the testing is done. The 'ignoring answers' part is what people seem to be doing (not accusing anyone in particular) with regards to PEWS' last post in this thread.

Like I've said before I don't have any problems with the view that the rule itself should be changed, as well as the points that Zaremba brought up earlier.

That might be because PEWS gave the same information as others in the thread with regards to revolutions etc etc, but nobody has said how they do this. As far as the rest of what he said, it was asked previously by others and people gave their opinions on this.

 

[uvelocity]

 

[Daemon]

Pretty much. I'm out.