Smith and Ponting choose Flintoff

[BoyBrumby]

One tricky missed stumping doesn't devalue a series' work.
He took one stunner earlier, remember?

Tricky? Nah, routine, you only had to see the bowler's reaction. Took his eye off it, schoolboy error. He grassed one straight after too, Fred possibly may not have gloved it, but hardly the point.

 

[Richard]

Everyone commented on how the ball bounced plentifully. I'd back most wicketkeepers of today to have missed it - only the Healy\Russell class would've pouched it most often.
Yes, he possibly missed another later (seemed little doubt about the glove to me) but that was far from straightforward either - he had to fight his way around Flintoff, no easy task. I was half-asleep at the time, haven't seen it more than a couple of times - hard to decide whether it was really catchable.
I have to say I very much doubt you'd be slagging him off so royally if he couldn't bat to save his life.
People have this preconceived notion that batting and wicketkeeping can't go hand-in-hand and as such anyone who can bat can't possibly be that good a 'keeper. It was what stopped Alec Stewart from getting proper acknowledgement.
It was the same thing that lead to people saying Jones wasn't a good 'keeper before almost everyone had even seen him 'keep.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I disagree. I'd say Gilly is probably the best keeper in test cricket just now, regardless of his other (obvious) virtues.

Geraint is improving with the gloves, it's unfortunate that his batting seems to be going the other way. Not that I'd blame him too much for today's dismissal.

 

[Richard]

Geraint has batted abysmally many times since his 4th Test.
Equally, he's often been on the end of a good deal of very fine deliveries (lost count of them in The Ashes), and once or twice been in situations such as today and been stuck between angels and starfish.
However, I fail to see that Geraint will ever be acknowledged as a particularly good wicketkeeper - even with his quite superb performances of this winter and his virtually faultless start to last summer.
As soon as he drops a single catch or misses a single stumping - which even the Russells and Healys did occasionally - people will instantly be on his back.
And - frankly - there's some justification, but not for that reason - for the reason that he's not scoring the runs of which he's palpably capable - sometimes due to his own rushes of blood.

 

[superkingdave]

Cricinfo describes it as "If England win, then Dhoni's horrible missed stumping of Andrew Flintoff today - when the England captain had given Harbhajan Singh the charge - will be viewed as a seminal moment."


At least 3 if not 4 or more missed chances by Dhoni this match - Geraint has missed 17 in his career

 

[Goughy]

Everyone commented on how the ball bounced plentifully. I'd back most wicketkeepers of today to have missed it - only the Healy\Russell class would've pouched it most often.

Dude, you are the guy going on about catches being caught or not caught and if a hand is there then it must be taken.

That stumping was regulation to a club keeper. That must be taken by any international keeper. I am willing to allow anybody one or two mistakes, so I have no issue with the keeper, but you saying it was difficult is laughable.

 

[Richard]

Cricinfo describes it as "If England win, then Dhoni's horrible missed stumping of Andrew Flintoff today - when the England captain had given Harbhajan Singh the charge - will be viewed as a seminal moment."


At least 3 if not 4 or more missed chances by Dhoni this match - Geraint has missed 17 in his career

Yes - it was takeable, there's no doubt about it. It will quite possibly be pivotal if India lose.
But it was not a terrible error.

 

[Richard]

Dude, you are the guy going on about catches being caught or not caught and if a hand is there then it must be taken.

That stumping was regulation to a club keeper. That must be taken by any international keeper. I am willing to allow anybody one or two mistakes, so I have no issue with the keeper, but you saying it was difficult is laughable.

It was difficult. It was, of course, a missed chance, but it was not one for which we should pillory Dhoni for - not least because it's almost certainly the 1st stumping he's missed in his Test career AFAIK.
Wicketkeeping at club and international level are broadly speaking the same thing. Straightforward things are still expected to be taken.
Nowadays, batting ability is what really sets wicketkeepers apart.

 

[superkingdave]

IIRC he missed a simple one off Akmal against Pak in the 3rd test

 

[Jono]

People have this preconceived notion that batting and wicketkeeping can't go hand-in-hand and as such anyone who can bat can't possibly be that good a 'keeper.

I agree with that, many people do that.

 

[Ming]

Pretty average?
I can barely recall a single mistake he's made all series - his 'keeping has been superb.
His batting hasn't done much, but I wasn't talking about his batting.

I thought his stumping of Flintoff was superb too.

 

[jadeey]

For NZ I'd take McGrath and Dravid

 

[Richard]

I thought his stumping of Flintoff was superb too.

I think you probably mean the one off Harmison.

 

[Richard]

IIRC he missed a simple one off Akmal against Pak in the 3rd test

No, that was Daryl Harper.

 

[luckyeddie]

Cricinfo describes it as "If England win, then Dhoni's horrible missed stumping of Andrew Flintoff today - when the England captain had given Harbhajan Singh the charge - will be viewed as a seminal moment."


At least 3 if not 4 or more missed chances by Dhoni this match - Geraint has missed 17 in his career

There's little doubt that different nations judge keepers by different standards - and Richard judges them by rules that no-one else can fathom .

Geraint is miles better than Dhoni with the gloves on - equally Jones is miles behind some of the keepers I've seen in my lifetime. I can see a massive improvement in his general keeping this winter though - perhaps the slower wickets give him a little more time to react - notice how he is now going with both hands when he can?

Incidentally, Bob Taylor was at Wankhede this week, and Boyks was suggesting that Jones have a word with him. I wonder if he did? It's not often you get the opportunity to pick the brains of one of the best 3 keepers of all time.

 

[Richard]

Given Bob's attitude to batsmen-wicketkeepers, I'd not be surprised if he refused to speak to either of them.