Six Nations

[ohtani's jacket]

Someone's being just a teensy bit short-sighted....

New Zealand's had its fair share of cheaters and dirty players... It's one of the hallmarks of a great forward pack.

 

[Blaze]

Players? Name one - other than Sitiveni Sivivatu, who I happily accept as a poach.

This is one argument you'll lose.

I am going to back Voltman here. I would like to see Scaly come up with something though so he can be put in his place.

 

[marc71178]

Im sure Kolpak is going to be quite beneficial for you!

Not really, because these are players who are already not good enough for their own country, so what makes you then think England will want them?

 

[Smudge]

I am going to back Voltman here. I would like to see Scaly come up with something though so he can be put in his place.

Scaly has clearly fallen hook, line and sinker for the lies that Eddie Butler, Stephen Jones and Brendan Gallagher love to spout week after week.

 

[luckyeddie]

I am going to back Voltman here. I would like to see Scaly come up with something though so he can be put in his place.

I never got the impression that Scaly was that big on the old puffs rugby (That's probably because I don't read the thread unless I accidentally click on it - like just now).

You learn something new every day.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Players? Name one - other than Sitiveni Sivivatu, who I happily accept as a poach.

This is one argument you'll lose.

Steve Devine? Born & raised in a struggling Rugby nation to the north of NZ!

Seriously tho I think the perception of NZ stealing players from the pacific islands is in part due to Union's qualification rules. There's blokes like So'oialo & Taumoepeau who have less gifted siblings playing for other countires when (for all I know) they may've been raised in NZ too.

I think off the top of my head Lauaki played against NZ for the Pacific Islanders too, so he's arguably another poach.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I never got the impression that Scaly was that big on the old puffs rugby (That's probably because I don't read the thread unless I accidentally click on it - like just now).

You learn something new every day.

I'm not, and I've got better things to do than sift through NZ player by player to find players who're from elsewhere. Everyone outside of NZ seems to accept that NZ readily poach players from elsewhere, so that's good enough for me.

Also Voltman already admitted to one player anyway.

 

[marc71178]

I never got the impression that Scaly was that big on the old puffs rugby

He's not, but like with Football (another game he knows very little about) he still is convinced his opinion is correct, regardless of facts to the contrary.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I should also add I do prefer rugby league to rugby union. The catch and drive in union seem to me to be virtually unstoppable - if the attack is getting pushed back they just break off and try to push-over again - this to me is a bit of a farce and unfair to the defending team. Then you've got too many games that just turn into penalty kicking contests and the referee plays too much of a role in all union games in my view. Having said that I wouldn't watch either sport unless England/GB were playing.

 

[Scaly piscine]

He's not, but like with Football (another game he knows very little about) he still is convinced his opinion is correct, regardless of facts to the contrary.

Oh wow, what a surprise, marc chimes in with some baseless comment against me - because he always fails miserably to make any ground whenever he makes a token effort to debate anything properly, such as Sven or Henry.

 

[luckyeddie]

Oh wow, what a surprise, marc chimes in with some baseless comment against me - because he always fails miserably to make any ground whenever he makes a token effort to debate anything properly, such as Sven or Henry.

I'm with you on this one.

I've upset the Geordies before, and of course there's a 'gangsta' after me following my entry into the 'most inappropriate smiley' contest, so it's about time I picked on Coventry (especially after they stuffed Derby 6-1).

 

[BoyBrumby]

I should also add I do prefer rugby league to rugby union. The catch and drive in union seem to me to be virtually unstoppable - if the attack is getting pushed back they just break off and try to push-over again - this to me is a bit of a farce and unfair to the defending team. Then you've got too many games that just turn into penalty kicking contests and the referee plays too much of a role in all union games in my view. Having said that I wouldn't watch either sport unless England/GB were playing.

As a forward (or ex, as it's over a year since I played) I'm gonna defend the maul. It's not impossible to defend although it can be very hard because the attacking side can "roll" around to the side & start a new maul. Since the change in the laws tho (over ten years ago now) if the maul comes to a halt possession is awarded to the team without the ball (the so-called "use it or lose it" rule). You may've noticed the refs saying things like "5 seconds" on Saturday when a maul ground to a halt; that's him telling the side use it in 5 or it's gone.

For me features like mauls, rucks & line-outs are what makes Union unique. They certainly means it's less regimented than its 13-man illegitimate daughter!

 

[Anna]

Well said!

 

[Blaze]

I should also add I do prefer rugby league to rugby union. The catch and drive in union seem to me to be virtually unstoppable - if the attack is getting pushed back they just break off and try to push-over again - this to me is a bit of a farce and unfair to the defending team. Then you've got too many games that just turn into penalty kicking contests and the referee plays too much of a role in all union games in my view. Having said that I wouldn't watch either sport unless England/GB were playing.

That's your problem. Watch the Super 14.

 

[Scaly piscine]

As a forward (or ex, as it's over a year since I played) I'm gonna defend the maul. It's not impossible to defend although it can be very hard because the attacking side can "roll" around to the side & start a new maul. Since the change in the laws tho (over ten years ago now) if the maul comes to a halt possession is awarded to the team without the ball (the so-called "use it or lose it" rule). You may've noticed the refs saying things like "5 seconds" on Saturday when a maul ground to a halt; that's him telling the side use it in 5 or it's gone.

For me features like mauls, rucks & line-outs are what makes Union unique. They certainly means it's less regimented than its 13-man illegitimate daughter!

Yea I know the 5 seconds rule, but it usually takes a while before the ref says '5 seconds'. For instance when England scored a try in the first half against Wales, they initially got pushed back - there was no '5 seconds' for the short while they were going nowhere or going backwards and it seems to be the same for every other time it happens, also if they are going nowhere they just break off anyway. Go to the BBC website, 3:20 of the way through the highlights (England v Wales) to see what I mean, I think something similar happened in Ireland v Italy but that was loading ridiculously slow so I'll check it later.

That to me is just a cheap way of scoring a try.

 

[Smudge]

I'm not, and I've got better things to do than sift through NZ player by player to find players who're from elsewhere. Everyone outside of NZ seems to accept that NZ readily poach players from elsewhere, so that's good enough for me.

Also Voltman already admitted to one player anyway.

Yes, I've admitted one - how's Mark Van Ginsbergen going this season, by the way?

So you're happy to listen to the idiotic majority. How about you bother reading doing some research and finding out that most of them are wrong. Let's bear in mind that some NH journos have called Umaga and Lomu poaches in the past.

Guess where they were born? Wellington and Auckland respectively.

How can you believe anything they write when they come up with such blatantly inaccurate rubbish as that?

Joe Rokocoko came to NZ when he was 5. Are our scouts that good that they can pick out a five-year-old running along the beach?

Collins, So'oialo and Lauaki? All came before they were 10.

Please note also, that Sivivatu was not a poach by the NZRU - he was offered a scholarship by a school (Wesley College off the top of my head). The NZRU does not get involved in any school scholarships of any nature.

Another wee fact for you to bear in mind? Auckland is the largest Polynesian city in the world and the Polynesian?Melanesian population of New Zealand has been slowly growing since the 1950s, and more rapidly since the 1970s.

And take a look at the 2003 Samoan World Cup squad. 14 of them were born in New Zealand. How come the British press wasn't up in arms about that?

 

[Smudge]

I think off the top of my head Lauaki played against NZ for the Pacific Islanders too, so he's arguably another poach.

Once again, if you fail to educate yourself, he may be "arguably another poach". It was cleared before the Pacific Islanders tour that the matches would not count as test caps for the players, otherwise Sivivatu and Lauaki would not have played.

By the same token, Filipo Levi (who was born in Ngaruawahia, north of Hamilton, and who I went to high school with) played for the Pacific Islanders. Another case of the multicultural melting pot that is New Zealand.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Once again, if you fail to educate yourself, he may be "arguably another poach". It was cleared before the Pacific Islanders tour that the matches would not count as test caps for the players, otherwise Sivivatu and Lauaki would not have played.

By the same token, Filipo Levi (who was born in Ngaruawahia, north of Hamilton, and who I went to high school with) played for the Pacific Islanders. Another case of the multicultural melting pot that is New Zealand.

Fair enough, I don't profess to know all that much about the upbringing of your average NZ international. But why is he not a poach if Sivivatu is? You've just said Sivi was offered a scholarship so presumably at least part of his education was in New Zealand.

I don't understand why you blokes get quite so indignant about it either. Success breeds jealousy & (as far as I can see) the alleged "poaching" is about the only stick NH journos have to beat you with. Rise above it!

 

[Smudge]

Why Filipo Levi isn't a poach? Because of his dual nationality. Although perhaps he is - it's just that you'll never hear that side of the story from your papers.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Why Filipo Levi isn't a poach? Because of his dual nationality. Although perhaps he is - it's just that you'll never hear that side of the story from your papers.

No, I meant Lauaki. I may be slightly obtuse on occasions, but even I'd stop short of calling a native born player a "poach"....