Sir Viv voted the Greatest ODI Player

[harsh.ag]

Garner, Teja!

 

[viriya]

Viv, Tendulkar, Wasim, McGrath, Gilchrist.

Dhoni extremely close to Gilchrist with captaincy taken into account and will jump to 4 if he wins this WC for India - will be something crazy with how low pre-WC expectations were among the cricket tragics.

Bevan, Murali, Ponting and Pollock the others in the top 10 for me.

There is no way Gilchrist should be in that list over Murali. He is just Jayasuriya with gloves - and Jayasuriya could bowl.

 

[ankitj]

Gilchrist I suppose is in consideration for his batting, but frankly there are more than a dozen batsmen who were better than him. I don't understand his inclusion. Dhoni has a solid case to be considered one of 5 greatest ODI batsmen of all time, and add to that other aspects of his career and you have a good case for inclusion in top 5. Although I will be happy even if he is not included in favour of any of McGrath, Murali, Garner or Bevan.

 

[Teja.]

I value clutch a ridiculous amount in ODIs and variance or not, Gilchrist has absurd clutch performances.

54 (36), 57 (48) and 149 (104) is just out of the world. Imagine if Sachin/Dhawan did 149 (104) in 2011/now in the WC final, we'd win the match in the first 20 overs.

 

[Teja.]

Basically, Gilchrist is an extremely high variance player due to the style of his gameplay but it has to be his credit that the upsides of his style happened to come in some extremely crucial games.

Wouldn't you guys rate Afridi (I'm not comparing him with AG here) drastically differently if a few of his random 100 (40) came in WC semis/finals?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah Gilchrist producing the goods in 3 consecutive finals is an amazing accomplishment.

 

[Teja.]

Garner, Teja!

Yeah, I rate Garner extremely highly. He's probably the best ever in terms of quality and has the best ODI match performance ever but doesn't really have the massive WC output that guys like Wasim//McGrath have. 13 wickets across 2 WCs at 22ish with one outstanding (beyond outstanding tho) performance.

I'd have him in my top five ODI bowlers and just outside the top 10 cricketers.

 

[indiaholic]

Would get in Murali ahead of Gilchrist. The rest of it looks good. Somebody like Garner should find a place in this but am not sure where. And the gap in the votes between tendulkar and viv is a joke. Lots of mythologizing and points being awarded for charisma can be the only rationale.

 

[The Sean]

There's probably a bit of mythologizing but I think the gap can be more readily explained by the voting system - 5 points for first place, 3 for second and 1 for third. If, in an extreme example, every one of the 50 voters ranked Richards as the greatest ever ODI cricketer, every-so-fractionally ahead of Tendulkar, then Viv would be 100 points ahead of Tendulkar despite every judge thinking there was a hair's breadth between them. I don't think the gap in points between the two is a reflection that the judging panel thinks Viv is proportionally that much better.

 

[harsh.ag]

Yeah, tbf Viv and Sachin aren't far off when it comes to ODI greatness at all. In many ways, Sachin one ups him. But Viv was little special, so he gets it.

 

[smash84]

There's probably a bit of mythologizing but I think the gap can be more readily explained by the voting system - 5 points for first place, 3 for second and 1 for third. If, in an extreme example, every one of the 50 voters ranked Richards as the greatest ever ODI cricketer, every-so-fractionally ahead of Tendulkar, then Viv would be 100 points ahead of Tendulkar despite every judge thinking there was a hair's breadth between them. I don't think the gap in points between the two is a reflection that the judging panel things Viv is proportionally that much better.

That explains it probably. Good point.

 

[Furball]

44.8 vs. 39.2

Tendulkar averaged 48 as an opener with a SR of 88. That's miles better than any other opener, sustained over an enormous amount of matches.

 

[viriya]

Basically, Gilchrist is an extremely high variance player due to the style of his gameplay but it has to be his credit that the upsides of his style happened to come in some extremely crucial games.

Wouldn't you guys rate Afridi (I'm not comparing him with AG here) drastically differently if a few of his random 100 (40) came in WC semis/finals?

Yeah Gilchrist producing the goods in 3 consecutive finals is an amazing accomplishment.

This is like how some people pick Warne in their ODI ATG XI based on 2 performances in 99... All is forgiven because all we seem to remember is that one time.

 

[Eclipse]

It's too easy to look at the stats of modern day players and say they are better than past generations (Batters mainly). The game has changed and batting is much easier now.

Kohli is one such player, he will probably go down as an all time great ODI batsman and rightly so but I would not rate him above guys of previous generations like Lara, Ponting etc even though his average will end up superior.

This is why Viv stands out so far above anyone else in my opinion. His stats are out of this world for the period he played.

 

[Eclipse]

This is like how some people pick Warne in their ODI ATG XI based on 2 performances in 99... All is forgiven because all we seem to remember is that one time.

I think that's a bit silly as Warne was probably not an OTG ODI player, mainly because he didn't play enough games.

Having said that the argument is still very valid, as a player you play for the big games and the big moments, those are the are a true test of your skill and the ones that matter and that are remembered. So yes the performances of Gilchrist in WC finals count a great deal more than the meaningless hundreds churned out in pointless bi-lateral ODI's in India.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I like how you mention India specifically because bilateral ODI series in other countries are apparently so meaningful.

 

[viriya]

I think that's a bit silly as Warne was probably not an OTG ODI player, mainly because he didn't play enough games.

Having said that the argument is still very valid, as a player you play for the big games and the big moments, those are the are a true test of your skill and the ones that matter and that are remembered. So yes the performances of Gilchrist in WC finals count a great deal more than the meaningless hundreds churned out in pointless bi-lateral ODI's in India.

They do, but then I would make an argument for Aravinda in the top 5 then.. you can't just pick him for this list based on WC performances - it has to be overall.

 

[Dissector]

I think Viv is an easy choice. He towered over the other ODI batsmen of his generation in a way that no one else has since him. He was also a brilliant fielder, useful bowler and a moderately successful captain. He hit a legendary hundred in one World Cup final and contributed heavily as a fielder in another.

 

[Furball]

I think with time I would rate players like Bevan lower. When you get players like Dhoni, you realize Bevan's SR was not impressive even for his time. He just was a man for the crisis, but not necessarily the best finisher.

Strike rate is irrelevant where finishers are concerned.

 

[Eclipse]

I like how you mention India specifically because bilateral ODI series in other countries are apparently so meaningful.

I said India because they play more there than anywhere else.