Simon Jones or James Anderson?

[tooextracool]

No, I'd rather reserve judgement, which is exactly what I have done thus far.

except that when i say that someone has potential, i dont mean that hes a proven test match quality bowler, which is what you seem to do.

 

[tooextracool]

Have you not been taking any notice of the happenings of the last 5 years or so?
For a bowler to play without some sort of small niggle (eg a sore toe) is less common than for him to play with one.
Yes, of course a full-blown injury (especially things like side-strains) is going to have some effect and a poor performance must be taken in context of any full-blown injury.
But a sore toe is not an excuse to bowl as poorly as he did at Lord's.
Nor is the after-effects of a stomach-bug any excuse for how poorly he bowled in the first-innings at Kingsmead.

do you realise that for someone who hasnt bowled in a while, a sore toe is precisely the sort of thing that can prevent him from getting into rhythm? of course some players play with injuries, but just because a few players have bowled well despite minor injuries, it doesnt mean that everyone is expected to bowl well whether he is fully fit or not.

 

[tooextracool]

You seem to think he could become one.
If you're going to become one you need the vital charecteristic of being relatively uneffected by minor injuries..

yes and where have i said that he's already one.i think he can become a very good fast bowler, if he can improve on his accuracy. i expect him to learn from experience so the he isnt affected by these injuries in the future. i dont however blame an inexperienced player for failing when he isnt match fit.

And for you to attempt to use a minor injury to excuse what was a poor performance shows equal desperacy.
Look, so far there's no way around the fact that Jones at Test-level has done little to suggest he's that good. Until he does I and anyone else are right to be sceptical about him.
You can go on blaming his poor performances when they come along on unimportant injury for only so long. Only once he starts consistently producing spells such as the Lord's and PE second-innings ones are you going to have a case.

once he starts producing those spells consistently, he would obviously have become a good bowler. which doesnt mean that i cant say that he has potential or anything of the sort. when hes been fully fit so far, hes bowled fairly well on several occasions, enough for me to say that he has potential.

 

[LCCC-LFCOwen04]

Simon Jones Is Better

Overall Simon Jones is better
He is quicker and has a good line and length
He showed good bouncebackability to get back from his injury
He deserves to be in the team

James Anderson is good but not good enough at this moment in time
Just keep him playing Lancashire and see how he does

This is Team Handsome
We are the Elite, Please email me and tell me your views

Thank You

 

[Langeveldt]

This is Team Handsome
We are the Elite, Please email me and tell me your views

Thank You

Erm.. Ehh??

 

[superkingdave]

Erm.. Ehh??

Not quite sure, definately a contender for strangest first post ever...

 

[Neil Pickup]

Not quite sure, definately a contender for strangest first post ever...

Still a distance behind the circumcision thread.

 

[Richard]

except that when i say that someone has potential, i dont mean that hes a proven test match quality bowler, which is what you seem to do.

Nope - I simply mean that someone has some abilities that might help him become a Test-match quality player.
Jones, without doubt, has some abilities (the ability to reverse-swing the ball most obvious). Equally, there are some he lacks (most obviously consistent accuracy) and if he doesn't learn them he's not going to become a Test-class bowler.

 

[Richard]

do you realise that for someone who hasnt bowled in a while, a sore toe is precisely the sort of thing that can prevent him from getting into rhythm? of course some players play with injuries, but just because a few players have bowled well despite minor injuries, it doesnt mean that everyone is expected to bowl well whether he is fully fit or not.

It's considerably more than "a few" players who've played through small injuries and continued to do well.

 

[Richard]

yes and where have i said that he's already one.i think he can become a very good fast bowler, if he can improve on his accuracy. i expect him to learn from experience so the he isnt affected by these injuries in the future. i dont however blame an inexperienced player for failing when he isnt match fit.

Hmm - well, once again it comes back to the simple "we'll see".

once he starts producing those spells consistently, he would obviously have become a good bowler. which doesnt mean that i cant say that he has potential or anything of the sort. when hes been fully fit so far, hes bowled fairly well on several occasions, enough for me to say that he has potential.

Yes, enough for most people.
But until he's putting in the performances with a bit more consistency I'm simply going to say I reserve judgement.

 

[tooextracool]

Nope - I simply mean that someone has some abilities that might help him become a Test-match quality player.
Jones, without doubt, has some abilities (the ability to reverse-swing the ball most obvious). Equally, there are some he lacks (most obviously consistent accuracy) and if he doesn't learn them he's not going to become a Test-class bowler.

well whatever way you want to look at it, it still says that he has plenty of potential.

 

[tooextracool]

It's considerably more than "a few" players who've played through small injuries and continued to do well.

and most of those players had played a lot of domestic and international cricket by the time.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, enough for most people.
But until he's putting in the performances with a bit more consistency I'm simply going to say I reserve judgement.

but you simply cant just reserve your judgement on potential until someone is a proven test quality bowler. because by that time the word 'potential' is pretty much pointless to use.

 

[Richard]

Look, I've said he's got potential, ever since his ability to reverse-swing the ball became prominent (only really in the Lord's game against New Zealand).
I've not, however, made the assumption many have that he must be able to improve his accuracy, because many have been unable to (Harmison, for instance - there's still absolutely no evidence that Harmison is anywhere near as accurate as people take for granted he is - in his last 5 Tests his economy-rate is 3.77-an-over and in his most economical game he went for 3.48-an-over) and unless he does improve his accuracy he won't become a Test-class bowler.
So I will wait until he does make an improvement before believing it's possible.

 

[tooextracool]

Look, I've said he's got potential, ever since his ability to reverse-swing the ball became prominent (only really in the Lord's game against New Zealand).
I've not, however, made the assumption many have that he must be able to improve his accuracy, because many have been unable to (Harmison, for instance - there's still absolutely no evidence that Harmison is anywhere near as accurate as people take for granted he is - in his last 5 Tests his economy-rate is 3.77-an-over and in his most economical game he went for 3.48-an-over) and unless he does improve his accuracy he won't become a Test-class bowler.
So I will wait until he does make an improvement before believing it's possible.

neither have i. ive simply said that he bowled extremely well in that last test match against SA, something that you seemed to deny, bringing in the wickets of tailenders etc. when hes bowled well IMO hes been better than everyone else in the side, and that says a lot about how devastating he can be if he were consistent.

 

[sledger]

give him time, i believe in a few years he will have gained that consitancy in a similar way that harmison has, without much doubt i think he is englands future talent.

 

[Richard]

neither have i. ive simply said that he bowled extremely well in that last test match against SA, something that you seemed to deny, bringing in the wickets of tailenders etc. when hes bowled well IMO hes been better than everyone else in the side, and that says a lot about how devastating he can be if he were consistent.

He bowled better than normal in that match, but still not anywhere near as well as his figures suggested.
He got 1 good wicket, 2 tail-enders and 1 poor decision.
Not particularly good in my book, and followed by the by-and-large dross he's bowled in this game it's not particularly special.
Of course, the next 1-and-3\4 hours could totally change all that.

 

[Richard]

give him time, i believe in a few years he will have gained that consitancy in a similar way that harmison has, without much doubt i think he is englands future talent.

Harmison has not gained consistency, as I've shown above.
So we cannot say that it's likely that Jones has.
Indeed, I'd say it's more unlikely than likely. There are fewer bowlers who improve their accuracy over a career than those who don't.
Of course, it's not impossible, far from it, but it's hellish difficult and I'm not going to believe it until it happens.

 

[sledger]

yes but its what he will work towards surely, everyone can regocnise the talent he has. its just about fine tuning that like most players have to to make it onto the big stage.

 

[Richard]

That's just the point - fine-tuning is simply smoothing rough edges - a simple formality.
Improving accuracy is anything but a simple formality. It's about the hardest thing to do in bowling.
So until someone does it, I'm not willing to guess that they are capable of such.