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Should Brett Lee be selected for the Ashes?

Should Brett Lee be picked for the Ashes, and if so, who misses out?

  • Yes - Johnson misses out

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes - Siddle misses out

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    71
  • Poll closed .

Uppercut

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5 wickets at 46? I think Hilfenhaus has shown that in helpful conditions he can be ok, at times and in non helpful conditions he's useless. Might be very good in the future, but currently nowhere near good enough.
Mildly annoying that he's taken barely any wickets but seems to be getting away with it because he played badly as part of a winning team. If the rest of the side hadn't stepped up I'm 100% sure the entire Australian section of the board would now quite rightly be saying "WTF Hilfenhaus is useless get Bollinger in there ****ing selectors haven't a ****ing clue".
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
very quick to judge

siddle hardly took any wickets in his first 2 tests and bollinger took squat all as well.
 

Redbacks

International Captain
In the House's favour, every time a Test player would take on Tasmania he would get them out.

Selectors would be well aware of these things above just the raw data.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
yeah but lee is lee (not in a good way) he is also well into the 30's

hilfenhaus has infinite potential pace (not lee pace) and age on his side, and has certainly not discgraced in south africa, which may have been the better way of wording it.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
i don't think they took a second keeper last time, they did however take a pair of pacemen that were down on form despite their obvious results over the previous 18 months (dizzy and kasper).
18 months? :blink: Try 3. The only poor performances from Gillespie and Kasprowicz pre-Ashes-2005 came during the New Zealand tour in February and March 2005.

The calendar-year of 2004 was the highlight of Gillespie's career and the only part of Kasprowicz's where he actually showed he could be a force at Test level. Saw McGrath pretty much at the peak of his powers too.

There was no way on Earth anyone should have remotely considered leaving either of them out of the 2005 party.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
In the House's favour, every time a Test player would take on Tasmania he would get them out.

Selectors would be well aware of these things above just the raw data.
Sometimes a player has developed a knack of getting above-the-norm players out.

Not much use if you can't take other wickets as well though.

(Thing is, of course, for Tasmania Hilfenhaus has done this - he's just not bowled very well in his couple of Tests so far)
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
It's extremely unlikely, of course it is. But it was unlikely in 2005 as well - more so, in fact. Sometimes, the unlikely comes to pass.
No way - England were a clear no. 2 in 2005, and had enjoyed a pretty long period of success. All the talk leading up to it was that this was the team that might realistically challenge the Aussies.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
I'd like to introduce you to a certain Waqar Younis, who was indisputably the best around, by a long, long way, between '90/91 and '94/95.
obviously never heard of a guy called Curtley Ambrose, you once again missed my point however, i was saying that calling Brett Lee the best bowler in the world based on a handful of good tests stringed together was like calling Paul Reiffel the best bowler in the world based on his excellent returns in England in 1993

18 months? :blink: Try 3. The only poor performances from Gillespie and Kasprowicz pre-Ashes-2005 came during the New Zealand tour in February and March 2005.

The calendar-year of 2004 was the highlight of Gillespie's career and the only part of Kasprowicz's where he actually showed he could be a force at Test level. Saw McGrath pretty much at the peak of his powers too.

There was no way on Earth anyone should have remotely considered leaving either of them out of the 2005 party.
Gee whiz i'm sorry Dick, my wording must have been confusing, I should have said 'were down on form despite their obvious good form in the previous 18 months to that

Absolutely right!

Wade will tour for certain since he can play tour games as a specialist batsman if required.
think we have a Wade lover, he has as much chance of going to england as Matthew Hayden
 

iamdavid

International Debutant
I think they're going to back Hilfenhaus and I'd do the same thing to be honest. Hearing plenty of whinging about how his outswinger hasn't been that effective at test level yet, it's too loopy and swings straight from the hand etc, that's pretty irrelevant to me.

Fact is the guy has some very strong fundamental qualities for a fast bowler, he's sharp and he appears quicker to the batsman than he does on the speedgun due to the 'heavy ball', he's generally got good control and he can be counted upon to execute a plan and he's very fit and strong, looks like he could run in all day. The fact that he also bowls outswing is just the icing on the cake imo.....stick with him.....I know his figures in the first couple of tests don't stand up that well against Siddle or Johnson's....however he's bowled some very good probing spells and I don't think he's looked out of his depth at all.

As for Lee coming back, I'm a bit pessimistic as he did look awfully flat at times against India and South Africa...However I suppose at the end of the day there were some doubts over his fitness at the time (mind you I didn't hear any complaints about his fitness when he was knocking over Kiwi's for fun:dry:). And he was our best bowler for the preceding 2 years...so if he is able to prove his fitness he should atleast tour.
And I like the idea of our tail reading Johnson, Lee, Siddle , Hilfenhaus.....has a very solid look about it.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
No way - England were a clear no. 2 in 2005, and had enjoyed a pretty long period of success. All the talk leading up to it was that this was the team that might realistically challenge the Aussies.
people forget that, they also forget that the aussies didn't take it seriously, they were doing the 'yeah every ashes series we hear about this team that can beat us and it never happens'

I think they're going to back Hilfenhaus and I'd do the same thing to be honest. Hearing plenty of whinging about how his outswinger hasn't been that effective at test level yet, it's too loopy and swings straight from the hand etc, that's pretty irrelevant to me.

Fact is the guy has some very strong fundamental qualities for a fast bowler, he's sharp and he appears quicker to the batsman than he does on the speedgun due to the 'heavy ball', he's generally got good control and he can be counted upon to execute a plan and he's very fit and strong, looks like he could run in all day. The fact that he also bowls outswing is just the icing on the cake imo.....stick with him.....I know his figures in the first couple of tests don't stand up that well against Siddle or Johnson's....however he's bowled some very good probing spells and I don't think he's looked out of his depth at all.

As for Lee coming back, I'm a bit pessimistic as he did look awfully flat at times against India and South Africa...However I suppose at the end of the day there were some doubts over his fitness at the time (mind you I didn't hear any complaints about his fitness when he was knocking over Kiwi's for fun). And he was our best bowler for the preceding 2 years...so if he is able to prove his fitness he should atleast tour.
And I like the idea of our tail reading Johnson, Lee, Siddle , Hilfenhaus.....has a very solid look about it.
haha so true, and totally agree about hilfy, there's some serious hilfy bashers on here

I disagree, think they'll take him, particularly if he makes a few in the SS final.
can't agree with this though, that makes 2 Wade lovers
 

iamdavid

International Debutant
can't agree with this though, that makes 2 Wade lovers
He's the obvious candidate if they do take a reserve keeper IMO, Ronchi did seem to have the backup position nailed down however he kinda went off the rails this season. I reckon Wade, Manou and Hartley are all of roughly equal ability with the bat atm with Hartley just slightly better with the gloves, however Wade appears to be developing really quickly and his underage record and technique suggest to me he has it in him to be an excellent batsman, plus he's like 5 years younger than Hartley and 8 years younger than Manou....and it's likely to be more a development role as he'll play no international cricket unless Haddin gets hurt, and they do seem to be in a mood for taking punts on young players just lately (Hughes, Lachlan)....it's a no-brainer to me.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
how can he be the obvious next choice ? he wasn't even the first choice for his state all the time this year.

give the kid a chance to cement himself just in case he isn't the next ian healy plucked from obscurity and turns out to be the next geraint jones
 

mikeW

International Vice-Captain
He's the obvious candidate if they do take a reserve keeper IMO, Ronchi did seem to have the backup position nailed down however he kinda went off the rails this season. I reckon Wade, Manou and Hartley are all of roughly equal ability with the bat atm with Hartley just slightly better with the gloves, however Wade appears to be developing really quickly and his underage record and technique suggest to me he has it in him to be an excellent batsman, plus he's like 5 years younger than Hartley and 8 years younger than Manou....and it's likely to be more a development role as he'll play no international cricket unless Haddin gets hurt, and they do seem to be in a mood for taking punts on young players just lately (Hughes, Lachlan)....it's a no-brainer to me.
Agree tbh, will get the gig purely for the future. He's only 20 isn't he?

Paine also a huge shot.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
paine is less of a chance of wade, the guy made no runs this season and reportedly isn't that much chop with the gloves either

behind ronchi, who it seems would surely have dropped down the pecking order (cries) manou, hartley, then wade, whoever they have at nsw this week, and the 'backstops' from tassie
 

FBU

International Debutant
Lee in England
10 Tests 29 wickets at 45.44 econ 4.22 s/r 64.50

Bollinger in England
7 matches 16 wickets at 44.56 econ 3.73 s/r 71.62


I would go for Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Clark but I prefer watching Lee, Johnson and Hilfenhaus. :)
 

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