Shakib Al Hasan vs The Great All Rounders

[cnerd123]

How can you reject Shakib's performances in SA as a tiny sample set and then proceed to say his performances in a handful of tests this summer is sufficient to rate him on?

And this is overlooking how you are stubbornly refusing to give Shakib credit for his spells in SA despite being provided evidence that there were good wickets, created a chance for BD to advance in the game (which they threw away cuz as a team they sucked), and that he legit bowled well to get them.

And to retort to these criticisms of your logic by saying 'Oh well pardon me for not thinking he is as good as Sobers or Miller!"...Wtf?

I don't understand you Zinzan.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's only played 6 Tests against Zimbabwe

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah but against whom, for the most part? Come on.

Against the teams he got to play against. That's my whole point. Shakib has been playing mostly at an ATG level but maybe not against ATG level opposition. It's still test cricket though.

I doubt there's really that much disagreement on all this, it's just a question of semantics and attitudes. I don't like the sneering attitude towards Shakib or the lame attempts at slotting him into some lowly level in the all-rounders pantheon via an arbitrary downgrading of his actual performances. I'd actually much prefer if you just totally discredited him by saying "he's played like a gun against mostly crap opposition and accordingly he is basically impossible to rate accurately".

Better to say "we'll never really know where he stands due to Bangladesh's test schedule" (maybe true) than "I know he probably would've sucked if he'd had a different schedule" (wild speculation).

 

[TheJediBrah]

Against the teams he got to play against. That's my whole point. Shakib has been playing mostly at an ATG level but maybe not against ATG level opposition. It's still test cricket though.

I doubt there's really that much disagreement on all this, it's just a question of semantics and attitudes. I don't like the sneering attitude towards Shakib or the lame attempts at slotting him into some lowly level in the all-rounders pantheon via an arbitrary downgrading of his actual performances. I'd actually much prefer if you just totally discredited him by saying "he's played like a gun against mostly crap opposition and accordingly he is basically impossible to rate accurately".

Better to say "we'll never really know where he stands due to Bangladesh's test schedule" (maybe true) than "I know he probably would've sucked if he'd had a different schedule" (wild speculation).

Hard to argue with either of these. Surely most can agree?

Same as how you can't definitively prove he is an ATG, you can't definitively prove that he's not an ATG

 

[honestbharani]

Tier 2.5 guys... solves all your problems.

 

[Burgey]

Against the teams he got to play against. That's my whole point. Shakib has been playing mostly at an ATG level but maybe not against ATG level opposition. It's still test cricket though.

I doubt there's really that much disagreement on all this, it's just a question of semantics and attitudes. I don't like the sneering attitude towards Shakib or the lame attempts at slotting him into some lowly level in the all-rounders pantheon via an arbitrary downgrading of his actual performances. I'd actually much prefer if you just totally discredited him by saying "he's played like a gun against mostly crap opposition and accordingly he is basically impossible to rate accurately".

Better to say "we'll never really know where he stands due to Bangladesh's test schedule" (maybe true) than "I know he probably would've sucked if he'd had a different schedule" (wild speculation).

I don't recall saying the latter at all. I do fall into the former POV though. It is hard to rate him, but he's obviously a very good cricketer. Sort of a Dave Houghton on steroids of the 21st Century.

 

[vitalogy83]

Against the teams he got to play against. That's my whole point. Shakib has been playing mostly at an ATG level but maybe not against ATG level opposition. It's still test cricket though.

I doubt there's really that much disagreement on all this, it's just a question of semantics and attitudes. I don't like the sneering attitude towards Shakib or the lame attempts at slotting him into some lowly level in the all-rounders pantheon via an arbitrary downgrading of his actual performances. I'd actually much prefer if you just totally discredited him by saying "he's played like a gun against mostly crap opposition and accordingly he is basically impossible to rate accurately".

Better to say "we'll never really know where he stands due to Bangladesh's test schedule" (maybe true) than "I know he probably would've sucked if he'd had a different schedule" (wild speculation).

By the end of next year we won't be able to say this..we will all know where he stands in the next 12-18 months with their schedule.

 

[Zinzan]

But you won't find out, because 1-2 series doesn't and shouldn't define his career. How many tests total will he be playing on those tours?

The guy has been playing test cricket for a DECADE ffs. The idea that we evaluate the value of that decade through the lens of whatever he happens to do in 4 or 5 tests one summer against our chosen opponents is just total crap.

How can you reject Shakib's performances in SA as a tiny sample set and then proceed to say his performances in a handful of tests this summer is sufficient to rate him on?

And this is overlooking how you are stubbornly refusing to give Shakib credit for his spells in SA despite being provided evidence that there were good wickets, created a chance for BD to advance in the game (which they threw away cuz as a team they sucked), and that he legit bowled well to get them.

And to retort to these criticisms of your logic by saying 'Oh well pardon me for not thinking he is as good as Sobers or Miller!"...Wtf?

I don't understand you Zinzan.

@ TH ... Nobody is saying his whole career is going to be decided on the 4-5 tests vs, those two opposition in the next 12 months, but it will certainly help his case to have more exposure & to perform against the toughest sides in the hardest touring conditions for SC cricketers.

This isn't a debate about whether he's a fine test cricketer, I'm not disputing that, it's whether he's at ATG level as an Test allrounder.

I find it really difficult to compare him with those others names who for large portions of their careers were exposed against, and performed against the top opposition of their time both home and away. As Burgey rightly pointed out, it's not Shakib's fault he's never played a Test vs. Australia, but having watched him play (admittedly not as much as some of you) I have reservations that he's that good. Sorry I feel that way, I could lie and say I think he's at the tier 2-3 test allrounder level (like HB) in the S Pollock class just to satisfy you, but that would be stupid.

 

[cnerd123]

Again your post has nothing to do with what I'm addressing.

Why are you still stubbornly refusing to accept that Shakib's two spells vs SA in SA were quality performances, having been provided evidence that they were?

 

[Zinzan]

Why are you asking me to repeat what I replied to OS about those two spells on the previous page? I said I'll grant him the spell that reduced them to 134/5 including the big scalps (even though SA still recovered to score 400+), but not the other 5-fer reducing them from 352/3 to 441 when SA were completely bossing the game. Anyway, this is getting ***** tedious.

 

[Shady Slim]

tbh apparently in terms of names his name means shakib the handsome according to a quick google

real talk does this beat out colin the great man

 

[Burgey]

***** is OCD about this bloke. It's ridiculous.

 

[cnerd123]

***** is OCD about this bloke. It's ridiculous.

 

[Daemon]

***** is OCD about this bloke. It's ridiculous.

***** never lets go once he latches on to something. Went on for tens of pages (40ppp) defending Nagpur to anyone who made a passing remark about it's shitness.

 

[Shady Slim]

i used to think nagpur was a bad pitch but then i realised the historical brilliance of dean elgar four fer cricket (the words of flem, not me) and now i would say it was worth it

 

[honestbharani]

***** never lets go once he latches on to something. Went on for tens of pages (40ppp) defending Nagpur to anyone who made a passing remark about it's shitness.

He had some help, you ****.

 

[cnerd123]

***** never lets go once he latches on to something. Went on for tens of pages (40ppp) defending Nagpur to anyone who made a passing remark about it's shitness.

It worked tho. You don't hear anybody complaining now

 

[cnerd123]

Bump

love that I've been able to take a back seat in the Shakib Bandwagon in the tour thread tbh.

 

[Burgey]

***** never lets go once he latches on to something. Went on for tens of pages (40ppp) defending Nagpur to anyone who made a passing remark about it's shitness.

Hopefully he never decides to defend Chennai.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The great allrounders would probably give him a wedgie at his initiation.