I mean people have always criticised selections before and considered selectors to be useless long before Sarfaraz. I don't really feel like this manufactured controversy is hiding them at all, it's just another stick to beat them and Sarfaraz with for people who want to beat them anyway. @honestbharani has the right issue to tackle anyway regarding these sort of selection news with the lack of the India A tours post Covid. They're more important than wondering just how many selectors Sarfaraz said "**** you" to or whatever nonsense people love to eat up.
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Sarfaraz Khan give the guy a chance
- Thread starter loterry1994
- Start date
shortpitched713
International Captain
I don't pretend to be this guy's biggest fan, or know all his stats, but where does "5 or lower" come from, as a criteria to rubbish his extraordinary average?
5 is the position that some ATG bats settle at. That's a far cry from a true lower order batting position like 7 or 8 where you could plausibly(?) inflate average from not outs. So are these runs coming at 5, OR are they coming from lower? Because that makes a big difference for mine.
Hiding from the new ball for subcontinental players is a real thing. But for me that's a factor at the international level, where senior batsmen will drop from 3 or 4, down to 5 to avoid high quality international seamers with the new ball. And yeah, it is cowardly when it's done (although it's an absolute trend among subcontinent international cricketers by this point). I just don't see that being an accurate representation of Sarfraz's early career track in Indian FC though. The lad just has just been a very difficult to get out, run scoring machine. And no, that shouldn't be expected to translate to shorter forms, because FC ( and it's highest form Tests ), are an important entity unto themself, not just a throwaway add-on to a multi-billion dollar television marketing industry.
Seems like a clear cut case of Indian selector favoritism, which we've all seen this story before. Shouldn't be afraid to call it out again when it rears its ugly head.
5 is the position that some ATG bats settle at. That's a far cry from a true lower order batting position like 7 or 8 where you could plausibly(?) inflate average from not outs. So are these runs coming at 5, OR are they coming from lower? Because that makes a big difference for mine.
Hiding from the new ball for subcontinental players is a real thing. But for me that's a factor at the international level, where senior batsmen will drop from 3 or 4, down to 5 to avoid high quality international seamers with the new ball. And yeah, it is cowardly when it's done (although it's an absolute trend among subcontinent international cricketers by this point). I just don't see that being an accurate representation of Sarfraz's early career track in Indian FC though. The lad just has just been a very difficult to get out, run scoring machine. And no, that shouldn't be expected to translate to shorter forms, because FC ( and it's highest form Tests ), are an important entity unto themself, not just a throwaway add-on to a multi-billion dollar television marketing industry.
Seems like a clear cut case of Indian selector favoritism, which we've all seen this story before. Shouldn't be afraid to call it out again when it rears its ugly head.
It's a factor because Ranji bowlers are not on the same level as international bowlers, so it's easier to face tired Ranji bowlers who are not as good and consistent as Test level bowlers when you're batting 5 and lower. Batting at 5 or lower in Tests is not the same because of this, and so you can't expect runs at a lower level to translate well into a higher level, especially when in India there are a lot of options batting higher who are doing well, if not at the same level as Sarfaraz. They'll get first crack because the selectors feel they've been tested more than Sarfaraz, which is perfectly fair to assume. Not sure why you're bringing cowardice into this though. Please at least focus on the relevant matter instead of peddling fantasies.
ParwazHaiJunoon
First Class Debutant
These celebrations are not over the top. Dropping him would have been understandable had he shown middle finger to chief selector.
shortpitched713
International Captain
I don't dispute much of this. My points were only twofold:
1) Averaging 80 over YEARS in a row is extraordinary, regardless of position or other factors. Truly great players get nowhere close to that.
2) Batting at 5 is way different than 7 or 8. So why are they being lumped together as a singular feature of his batting to discredit him?
I'd like to know what he averages at 5, what he averages at 6, what he averages at 7, etc. Then we can look at patterns in that and see something. Otherwise saying "his runs were at 5 and below" paints too broad of a brush and may be a mischaracterization of his batting.
I mean the 2nd point ignores that better players tend to bat higher up in Ranji. So it's not that battig at 5 is the same as batting at 7-8 etc, it's that it's not the same as batting in the top 4. That is not really worth discarding given that it's largely held up for the rest of the batting selections India have had. Selectors being wary of jumping on the next talent is not a bad decision.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Except when it's such a prolifically good scoring record that it can't justifiably be ignored.
But, we're going in circles, so I get where you're going with your argument. ATD.
It can be ignored until he proves himself more. Like there are steps Sarfaraz can take to make it harder to ignore that record, that he hasn't yet. It's not bad decision making to not pick him yet, which seems to be parroted by almost everyone else for no real reason.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
I was quite annoyed at Sarfaraz Khan's non-selection. So today I took a closer look at his FC stats.
Ranji till 2018- 11 matches 500+ runs (trying to settle)
Ranji 2019/20- 6 matches 928 runs @154
Ranji 2021/22- 6 matches 982 runs @122
Ranji 2022/23- 6 matches 556 runs @92
Duleep Trophy till now- 2 matches 167 runs @55
India A unofficial tests- (team total in brackets)
v SA 2021- 71* (ind 276)
v SA 2021- 14 (ind 276)
v NZ 2022- 36 (ind 571/6)
v NZ 2022- 0 & 63 (ind 293 & 359/7)
v Ban 2022- 21 (ind 465/5)
v Ban 2022- 0 (ind 562)
2 50s in 6 tests, 205 runs @34
He simply has not grabbed his opportunities. And his FC record is padded and he does bat lower down the order which helps a bit facing tiring bowlers and not outs. So now, I am starting to see why selectors haven't picked him. He simply hasn't done well whenever he has faced more quality opposition in his limited opportunities, whereas Yashasvi Jaiswal already has got 2 double hundreds in Duleep Trophy as well as big hundred for India A. This is the difference between getting picked and not getting picked. Indian selectors are not as blind and stupid as I thought. But still Sarfaraz deserves a chance, although there are a few valid question marks around him.
FC record- 38 matches 56 innings 10 notouts, 3511 runs @76.33
Ranji till 2018- 11 matches 500+ runs (trying to settle)
Ranji 2019/20- 6 matches 928 runs @154
Ranji 2021/22- 6 matches 982 runs @122
Ranji 2022/23- 6 matches 556 runs @92
Duleep Trophy till now- 2 matches 167 runs @55
India A unofficial tests- (team total in brackets)
v SA 2021- 71* (ind 276)
v SA 2021- 14 (ind 276)
v NZ 2022- 36 (ind 571/6)
v NZ 2022- 0 & 63 (ind 293 & 359/7)
v Ban 2022- 21 (ind 465/5)
v Ban 2022- 0 (ind 562)
2 50s in 6 tests, 205 runs @34
He simply has not grabbed his opportunities. And his FC record is padded and he does bat lower down the order which helps a bit facing tiring bowlers and not outs. So now, I am starting to see why selectors haven't picked him. He simply hasn't done well whenever he has faced more quality opposition in his limited opportunities, whereas Yashasvi Jaiswal already has got 2 double hundreds in Duleep Trophy as well as big hundred for India A. This is the difference between getting picked and not getting picked. Indian selectors are not as blind and stupid as I thought. But still Sarfaraz deserves a chance, although there are a few valid question marks around him.
FC record- 38 matches 56 innings 10 notouts, 3511 runs @76.33
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
Just found out about Jaiswal's performance in the Irani trophy match this year-
213 & 144 (team total 484 & 246)
213 & 144 (team total 484 & 246)
Socerer 01
International Captain
Sarfaraz Khan so far in the duleep trophy - 0, 6 and 0
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
ParwazHaiJunoon
First Class Debutant
He's batting at 6. What else would you expect from him?
Socerer 01
International Captain
something like the 48 he scored in the 2nd innings now?
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Pretty sure most #6s average more than 2.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Why does he bat that low? I think someone like Jadeja batted 4/5 or something when he scored those triples
So that’s a bit weird if he’s a specialist batsman looking to get into the India team as a pure bat, but hiding at 5/6
So that’s a bit weird if he’s a specialist batsman looking to get into the India team as a pure bat, but hiding at 5/6
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
They say he has a slight weakness against pace bowling... haven't seen much of him so idk.
Socerer 01
International Captain
west zone and Mumbai have strong players for the top spots but at this point he should be asking or have the bcci ask to play him at 4 if he really wants to break into the main team
ParwazHaiJunoon
First Class Debutant
He's not that bad against pace.
SA-A vs IND-A Cricket Scorecard, 2nd unofficial Test at Bloemfontein, November 30 - December 03, 2021
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If he bats at 6 consistently, he will get used to it. You can't expect decent output if you continue to tinker with his batting positions.