Saeed Anwar vs. Virender Sehwag

[Sanz]

Man there has always been the unusual stuff in cricket. Hirwani spun out the WI team, Ganga scored back to back centuries vs AUS, Lawson took 7 wickets vs AUS, Massie 16 wickets in a test etc etc. None are known as great players.

This is the kind of nonsense you spout when you lose the argument. First it is argued that the pitch where Anwar scored his century had the balls swinging corners, which was proved WRONG by the match reports.

Then came the point about bowling attack which had great bowlers like Donald, Pollock , Match reports confirm that Donald was injured for the most part of the Pakistan second inning which suggests that Anwar didn't really face much of Donald in the second innings where he scored his century.

Then came the dagger of an argument "But the fact that they collapsed in seemingly flat conditions at that point in the test from a position from position of 159 for 1 to 226 all allot, highlights how good the SA attack was. Since only great bowlers can cause such batting collapses in non bowler friendly tracks."

And when I showed that any bowler can do such a thing on his day, you come up with above nonsense.

For the record :- Hirwani didn't spun out WI on a non-bowler friendly wicket.

 

[Pratters]

I refuse to believe that aussie has watched every inning he is talking about so assertively. I know some one can read indepth about an inning or a spell and then know and talk about it but I highly doubt that is the case here. He doesn't seem to have the indepth knowledge he is professing.

 

[Shri]

Since only great bowlers can cause such batting collapses in non bowler friendly tracks.

Seen a lot of bull**** in my foruming time but this one takes the cake. That collapse is a case of brain explosion. That match was another instance of Pakistan in self destruction mode. One that cricket fans know only too well. Same thing would have happened against any team from Australia to Zimbabwe.

 

[Xuhaib]

Seen a lot of bull**** in my foruming time but this one takes the cake. That collapse is a case of brain explosion. That match was another instance of Pakistan in self destruction mode. One that cricket fans know only too well. Same thing would have happened against any team from Australia to Zimbabwe.

No it was not anyside from Aus to Zim would have collapsed to Polly that day it was just awesome bowling but before tht spell Polly was quite average.


The innings of that game was Mehmood's hundred.

 

[aussie]

This is the kind of nonsense you spout when you lose the argument. First it is argued that the pitch where Anwar scored his century had the balls swinging corners, which was proved WRONG by the match reports.

Then came the point about bowling attack which had great bowlers like Donald, Pollock , Match reports confirm that Donald was injured for the most part of the Pakistan second inning which suggests that Anwar didn't really face much of Donald in the second innings where he scored his century.

Yes Donald was injured in the second innings. But how was Pollock, De Villiers & Klusener, Kallis less of an attack in those conditons?. Their was know weak links there. Which still makes it better than any thing Sehwag has ever done againts a quality pace attack in bowler friendly conditions.

Then came the dagger of an argument "But the fact that they collapsed in seemingly flat conditions at that point in the test from a position from position of 159 for 1 to 226 all allot, highlights how good the SA attack was. Since only great bowlers can cause such batting collapses in non bowler friendly tracks."

And when I showed that any bowler can do such a thing on his day, you come up with above nonsense.


For the record :- Hirwani didn't spun out WI on a non-bowler friendly wicket.

You gave the example of Agarkar taking that 6 wicket haul at Adelaide to illustrate that not only great bowlers can take wickets on flat wickets & cause batting collapses.

I disapproved this specific performace since although Agarkar bowled well AUS batted stupidy & it was a freak performance by him. The examples of Hirwani, Lawson, Ganga, Massie further proves that non great players can & have performed great feats in tests - but generally only great players do such things.

Going back to the specific point in relation to the Durban tests. As i mentioned just now looking at this 2000s era of flat decks, only ONE pace bowling attack has had longevity of success on the regular lifeless decks. Which is AUS (2000 to 2006/07). So as i said generally such a collapse which occured in the PAK 2nd innings on flat decks is only done by great bowlers

Seen a lot of bull**** in my foruming time but this one takes the cake. That collapse is a case of brain explosion. That match was another instance of Pakistan in self destruction mode. One that cricket fans know only too well. Same thing would have happened against any team from Australia to Zimbabwe.

Crap. Explain these tests bowling performances then:

- McGrath @ Lord's 05

- Flintoff @ Oval 05. AUS collapsing from 264-2 to 367 all out.

- Ambrose QPR Oval 94 & Perth 92/93

- Harmison Kingston 04

- India's collapses @ Ahmedabad 2008

- Mcgrath Lord's 97 & Perth 2004

- Kumble 1st innings Chennai 2004

- All of AUS collapses to Harbhajan in 2001 (especially Chennai AUS 326-3 day 1 to 391 all out)

- WI 53 all out vs PAK 1986

- ENG Antigua 98

- Akhtar vs AUS in 2002

- Holding Oval 76

All these clearly where just brain failures from the batsmen right?. Nothing to do with the greatness or ability of the bowlers

 

[aussie]

I refuse to believe that aussie has watched every inning he is talking about so assertively. I know some one can read indepth about an inning or a spell and then know and talk about it but I highly doubt that is the case here. He doesn't seem to have the indepth knowledge he is professing.

Haa...hold up, foul, travelling, flag-up offside. I never said i watched every single innings i am speaking about. For Anwar that certainly isn't that case. My argument fromt the start is the the Anwar i saw vs AUS (since i have seen every single AUS series since the 97 Ashes live expect for tours to NZ in 2000 & 2005) home & away is the late 90s was better than Sehwag clearly IMO. Every other thing else about Anwar is just research that i have done before.

On Sehwag rather my argument is 100% based on seeing him bat. I have seen every Sehwag test for IND live since ENG 2001 (except for in NZ 2002/03 & BANG 2003/04) everybody in England who has skysports can testitfy to luck we have to see basically all international cricket. You can start a thread asking this question if you want.

I also did not see his debut live. But i seen highlights of that hundred exactly twice over the years.

So my judgement on Sehwag would be just as fair as judging any Australian or English player.

 

[Pratters]

Haa...hold up, foul, travelling, flag-up offside. I never said i watched every single innings i am speaking about. For Anwar that certainly isn't that case. My argument fromt the start is the the Anwar i saw vs AUS (since i have seen every single AUS series since the 97 Ashes live expect for tours to NZ in 2000 & 2005) home & away is the late 90s was better than Sehwag clearly IMO. Every other thing else about Anwar is just research that i have done before.

Every Australian series? I find it hard to believe that.

On Sehwag rather my argument is 100% based on seeing him bat. I have seen every Sehwag test for IND live since ENG 2001 (except for in NZ 2002/03 & BANG 2003/04) everybody in England who has skysports can testitfy to luck we have to see basically all international cricket. You can start a thread asking this question if you want.

You are getting the broadcast but I don't believe you have seen every ball or every test of Sehwag since Eng 2001. That would mean you have too much time and no life.

 

[aussie]

Every Australian series? I find it hard to believe that.

Yes every test series during that period and i'm very sure i'm not the only AUS fan on this forum in this bracket. I dont see why thats so hard to believe.

You are getting the broadcast but I don't believe you have seen every ball or every test of Sehwag since Eng 2001. That would mean you have too much time and no life.

. What madness i never even said that yo, nobody can watch every single ball of a test match, that is not physically possible for a test match that last the full 5 days (maybe a 2 day test like ENG V WI 2000 @ Leeds). Definately in ODIs & T20s. I didn't even see every single ball of the recent WI vs AUS tests.

I saw enough of each tests to make a fair judgement on Sehwag. Which any person can do with any player.

 

[Pratters]

I saw enough of each tests to make a fair judgement on Sehwag. Which any person can do with any player.

Either you didn't watch enough or you can't judge properly because your judgement is absolutely rubbish.

 

[Pratters]

Yes every test series during that period and i'm very sure i'm not the only AUS fan on this forum in this bracket. I dont see why thats so hard to believe.

You have never had exams or work which made it a busy schedule for you because of which you couldn't watch a test series IN THE LAST 13 YEARS?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Since only great bowlers can cause such batting collapses in non bowler friendly tracks.

And all of Sehwag's innings against great bowlers are somehow still discounted as they were on imaginary flat tracks

 

[Pratters]

How have you watched every Indian test since 2001? That is eight years of watching EVERY Indian test when you are not even an Indian cricket fan? You telling me you have watched every test in which India has played Sri Lanka or Zimbabwe or West Indies or New Zealand or Bangladesh in the last 8 years? I find that hard to believe.

 

[honestbharani]

Hey, Lara had glaring technical weaknesses, Sehwag is a FTB, and he has watched every single game of cricket we played since 2001... It all hangs together, methinks..

 

[marc71178]

I saw enough of each tests to make a fair judgement on Sehwag. Which any person can do with any player.

So when are you going to present the fair judgment then?

 

[Avada Kedavra]

Hey, Lara had glaring technical weaknesses, Sehwag is a FTB, and he has watched every single game of cricket we played since 2001... It all hangs together, methinks..

Of course Lara had glaring technical weakness. He scored 11,000 + runs on flat pitches, when bowlers were out of form and past their peak. He also never scored a 100 at 2 p.m on the fourth day of a test match when the ball swings around a lot.

 

[aussie]

Haaa...like this boy is a clown. What foolishness you really asking me boy

You have never had exams or work which made it a busy schedule for you because of which you couldn't watch a test series IN THE LAST 13 YEARS?

12 years correction - 13 years for me watching cricket will be August 2010. Well of course not i just left high school/6th form. Test from the sub-continent start at 5:30 in the morning here. So unless AUS & ENG where playing somewhere in sub-continent, genereally i would not have reason to wake up & watch any major IND home series.

The only exciting IND home series i can remember making an effort to watch in detail was the SRI tour 05 (given the Murali vs Warne debate was hot on this site then), SA 08. All the series vs PAK (expect 07/08 since the hype was gone by then)

How have you watched every Indian test since 2001? That is eight years of watching EVERY Indian test when you are not even an Indian cricket fan?

Yes every IND HOME series is broadcasted here. I just said that, cant you read:

On Sehwag rather my argument is 100% based on seeing him bat. I have seen every Sehwag test for IND live since ENG 2001 (except for in NZ 2002/03 & BANG 2003/04)

Plus there is always highlights here in the night. So yes by defualt i see everything from IND.

You telling me you have watched every test in which India has played Sri Lanka or Zimbabwe or West Indies or New Zealand or Bangladesh in the last 8 years? I find that hard to believe.

You trying to punk me or what, allright clown here watch me now. Point out to where i said that, especially regarding ZIM & BANG games.

As i said before i made an effort to watch the entire 2005 SRI tour for reasons aforementioned. Plus i have watched the current 2 test series on & off as i've woken up.

For NZ yes i saw NZ tour to IND 2003. Also the entire TVS Cup ODI series then. I caught a bit of INDs tour to NZ earlier this year as well.

West Indies yes i saw pretty much all of the 2002 IND tour their. My recollection of Predro Collings troubling Tendy is very vivid. Same thing does for the IND tour in 2006, i saw a fair bit of that series especially the Kingston test.

The memory of 2002 home test series vs WI is patchy, but i saw a bit of it, the ODI series which WI won 4-3 i saw most of.

Proof of this is i remember Chris Gayle being caught @ long on by Murali Karthik & his band bursting taking the catch. I remembe in THE ODI debut of Balaji Wavell Hinds smoking him. When Samuels scored his hundred he took the peice of the red rag Steve Waugh gave him 2000/01 & waved it..

Now that you have made me go through all this, since you want prove i actually saw what i am speaking about. YOU do the same in detail about every IND series you have saw in detail, since i refuse to debate with you if you have not seen all of the series that i've spoken of.

Either you didn't watch enough or you can't judge properly because your judgement is absolutely rubbish.

Well of course you would call it rubbish, everything myself & subshakerz has said has not been disproven. Fact is as been said before presuming he is fit when Sehwag plays SA, PAK or WI again on bowler friendly deck. Unless i see some improvements technical i expect him to fail again.

And all of Sehwag's innings against great bowlers are somehow still discounted as they were on imaginary flat tracks.

Again posters need to read before making a comment. Clearly if you read the the previous page, you would have seen this question answered. If you agree of disagree is a different matter...

 

[aussie]

I agree with lunging at spinners but falling to the offside is actually an inherent part of his game not a limitation exactly. we tend to think he gets a lot of lbwz in that way but the fact is different. Ponting uses that falling to the off to take the ball on the full or even slightly short of length to the legside. It actually gives him a unique balance to despatch it over square leg. Poking outside off is common to boht dravid and Ponting but Dravid tends to do that lesser because he is a defensive batsman.

Yea. But that lunging at the spinners in turning pitches has been gone for since IND 2001. Ponting only SLIGHT technical weakness vs the pace is VERY early if a bowler a very good at bowling inswinger you could potential get him out LBW as Taylor has done a few times & ENG in Ashes 05. But its not really glaring that opposition can target can consistently, like what teams have consistently done with Sehwag.

Dravid i dunno every time he has played againts AUS when McGrath was around. He always seemed to get squared up getting caught behind or LBW. Warne always troubled him.

 

[subshakerz]

This thread seems to have gone completely off track. Ah well.

 

[aussie]

This thread seems to have gone completely off track. Ah well.

Ye some bwoy want to get personal.

 

[Pratters]

If most of what you have seen of Sehwag is Indian home tests, how can you assess him on fast, bouncier pitches abroad where there is more swing movement.