Saeed Ajmal reported for chucking

[Richard]

I certainly agree with him. As Brumby says, with Murali's doosra measured at 14 degrees when he knew he was being test, it's reasonable to think he's gone over that at some stage in match conditions. With McGrath measured at 11 degrees while being tested, it's pretty unlikely that he's never reached 15 degrees either at some stage in a match condition. And if someone with McGrath's action has done it, there won't be many players who haven't.

Yeah, some people seem to think 3 or 4 degrees is something sizeable.

It isn't. There are 360 degrees in a circle. 3 or 4 degrees has to have one hell of an acute measurement tool to even pick it up. The naked-eye has not the remotest of hope of doing so.

You'd have to look very closely at a still image of a 1mm-thick line to notice a difference between 13deg and 16deg. To do so with an arm moving at a very fast speed is completely and totally impossible.

 

[Son Of Coco]

I certainly agree with him. As Brumby says, with Murali's doosra measured at 14 degrees when he knew he was being test, it's reasonable to think he's gone over that at some stage in match conditions. With McGrath measured at 11 degrees while being tested, it's pretty unlikely that he's never reached 15 degrees either at some stage in a match condition. And if someone with McGrath's action has done it, there won't be many players who haven't.

Apart from Ramnaresh Sarwan.

The difference being that the doosra seems to be a delivery that most bowlers push the boundaries in trying to deliver. When was McGrath required to be measured in a lab? I was under the impression the test they used on the players when they were all grouped in the chucker's column wasn't accurate enough to give exact readings, if it was we'd be using it now.

I'd imagine if it was guesswork using equipment that wasn't completely accurate it'd be hard to tell whether a player's measurement was when he was at the limit of his flexion or not. It's quite possible that if McGrath was measured in a situation where it was accurate and gave a reading of 11 degrees then that's his absolute limit isn't it? Or was it an average of all deliveries? Assuming he doesn't try to chuck one deliberately.

 

[chaminda_00]

It how some bowlers like Botha that bowl the doorsa that the issue not the ball itself. To ban one ball cus a couple bowlers can't bowl it under 15 degrees is bit over the top. Malik, Murali, Bhajji, Hearth, Haque, Krejza, Cullen, Loudon, Mendis and a Windies spinner (can't think of his name) have all bowled it at International level. And some of them have been tested Malik, Murali and Bhajji and we all under 15 degrees, even if it was just one degree.

Banning the doorsa cus a couple bowlers have been tested over 15 degrees would be on par with banning spinners bowling the quicker ball as Samuels was pull up for throwing it.

 

[chaminda_00]

The difference being that the doosra seems to be a delivery that most bowlers push the boundaries in trying to deliver. When was McGrath required to be measured in a lab? I was under the impression the test they used on the players when they were all grouped in the chucker's column wasn't accurate enough to give exact readings, if it was we'd be using it now.

I'd imagine if it was guesswork using equipment that wasn't completely accurate it'd be hard to tell whether a player's measurement was when he was at the limit of his flexion or not. It's quite possible that if McGrath was measured in a situation where it was accurate and gave a reading of 11 degrees then that's his absolute limit isn't it? Or was it an average of all deliveries? Assuming he doesn't try to chuck one deliberately.

FWIW the equipment was pretty accurate but it based on replays of bowlers and couldn't be used in real speed without hooking up the players in a matches. But bowlers complain it the magnet things don't allow them to get through their whole action and may effect their ability to send the bowl down the way they want to. The same equipments used in lab tests to confirm the reading from magnet things.

 

[Debris]

Boycott and Ramiz Raja have called for the 15 degrees to be increased so that the Doosra is always legal.

Interesting to think about what quick bowlers would do if they were allowed to straighten their arm say 30 degrees.

 

[funnygirl]

I don't think Mcgrath and other bowlers were tested in the lab.Did they ?

 

[Naumaan]

well i hope Saeed Ajmal is cleared

 

[Son Of Coco]

FWIW the equipment was pretty accurate but it based on replays of bowlers and couldn't be used in real speed without hooking up the players in a matches. But bowlers complain it the magnet things don't allow them to get through their whole action and may effect their ability to send the bowl down the way they want to. The same equipments used in lab tests to confirm the reading from magnet things.

If it was 'pretty accurate' - at least accurate enough to say 'McGrath was 11 degrees' - then it could still be used in a match situation. It wouldn't matter if you had to check replays as you'd still deal with it during the match and not 3-4 weeks down the track. The fact that they don't suggests to me it's not accurate enough to put a figure of x degrees on a bowlers action with any real assurance.

I did read an article where Angus Fraser was talking about a bowler's action being at 11 degrees, but assumed that was lab tested.

 

[Debris]

well i hope Saeed Ajmal is cleared

If he is straightening his arm less than 15 degrees, then he will be.

 

[chaminda_00]

If it was 'pretty accurate' - at least accurate enough to say 'McGrath was 11 degrees' - then it could still be used in a match situation. It wouldn't matter if you had to check replays as you'd still deal with it during the match and not 3-4 weeks down the track. The fact that they don't suggests to me it's not accurate enough to put a figure of x degrees on a bowlers action with any real assurance.

I did read an article where Angus Fraser was talking about a bowler's action being at 11 degrees, but assumed that was lab tested.

It is the speed of anaylse of the data that i think is the issue. I don't think it is even possible when they wire up to players to pop out a number and be 99% sure that number is correct. It takes a while to anaylse the data. It couple take a couple days to anaylse whether one ball was over 15 degrees. The difference between 10 degrees and 15 degrees is a million times smaller then say a run out or a disputed catch. With enough analyse even just using replays you would get an accurate number. But it not something that will be popped out in a couple seconds with accuracy. That the issue with using it in a match, the speed not the accuracy.

Also you hear the odd arguement that one day all bowlers will look like baseball pitchers. But you do realise baseball pitchers have a flex of 20-30 degress. That double, triple most cricket bowlers. That well beyond natural flexation.

 

[Son Of Coco]

But it not something that will be popped out in a couple seconds with accuracy. That the issue with using it in a match, the speed not the accuracy.

Even still, that's quicker than having them take 20 days to get themselves tested and play in the meantime, so you'd suspect that accuracy must be an issue otherwise they'd be using it.

I'm sure someone else on here a while ago mentioned that it was only accurate enough to judge and set the 15 degree limit for all players, but not accurate enough to judge players on an individual basis without further testing in a lab.

 

[Smith]

CRICKET - ICC clears Ajmal's bowling action - FOX Sports on MSN

All's well that ends well.

 

[Jono]

Watson can suck it up now

 

[Smith]

Watson can suck it up now

Haha true.

 

[Xuhaib]

Good for Ajmal though I still maintain he is a mediocre bowler despite his good howing in the recent series.

 

[Top_Cat]

Watson can suck it up now

Yup. Acted like a prize tool on-field about this.

 

[Richard]

How long before the next round of "well clearly the testing isn't doing its job properly because my eyes still make it obvious he's chucking"?

Wait, it's presumably already started.

 

[Smith]

The name is Ajmal and not Amjal. Not a big deal, but while doing search after some time (Am sure this issue will crop up again!), it will be a nuisance. :-)

 

[slowfinger]

Who would have thought it'd be Watson, I was well surprised o.o

 

[funnygirl]

How long before the next round of "well clearly the testing isn't doing its job properly because my eyes still make it obvious he's chucking"?

Wait, it's presumably already started.

AFP: Pakistani bowler Saeed Ajmal's action cleared

"Ajmal can continue to bowl using the action......".

Didn't see the guy's bowling, so can't comment on it. But that part is relevant to almost all the bowlers.Thats why testing on match conditions is a must .As some one already suggested if people can find Mcgrath's flexion without the lab test and from the match situations, what is prohibiting them in the case of other bowlers.