Richard Hadlee vs Viv Richards

[Coronis]

Take uh, Smith’s record in Bangladesh for example. Now Bangladesh might still be considered a weak team at that point but they’re far from minnows. For a batsman of his level and in his form you could argue Smith cost Australia the first test in what should have been an easy sweep. He scored 3 tons in his previous 4 matches and 3 more tons in his next 4 matches. Warner actually stepped up in that test and couldn’t save us, and he along with Lyon saved the series. But nobody would ever count that series as a plus for Warner and a minus for Smith. It gets glossed over as not mattering.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Take uh, Smith’s record in Bangladesh for example. Now Bangladesh might still be considered a weak team at that point but they’re far from minnows. For a batsman of his level and in his form you could argue Smith cost Australia the first test in what should have been an easy sweep. He scored 3 tons in his previous 4 matches and 3 more tons in his next 4 matches. Warner actually stepped up in that test and couldn’t save us, and he along with Lyon saved the series. But nobody would ever count that series as a plus for Warner and a minus for Smith. It gets glossed over as not mattering.

Yeah I think there are teams that are called minnows which for certain windows of time have been quite competitive in the right conditions, certainly not right to conclude numbers against them are worthless.

- Bangladesh at home from 2015 or so
- Zimbabwe in the late 90s for a 2-3 year period were pretty competitive and managed to win series vs Pak, India and came very close to beating NZ and SL.
- Pakistan in the 50s- early 60s are called minnows sometimes on here but Fazal and Khan Mohammed made them a tough beat at home

 

[subshakerz]

Hadlee played 69 out of 86 tests in NZ, Aus and England.

Outside that, he did well in India, had a poor early series in Pakistan, pillaged SL and had a moderate series in WI.

I consider Viv to have a more even record.

 

[Athlai]

Dude didn't schedule the Tests ffs

 

[Coronis]

Dude didn't schedule the Tests ffs

Clearly if he was as alpha as Viv he would’ve

 

[kyear2]

WI was the most conducive place for pacers???

Two were, one was flat, one spun and one unpredictable.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Two were, one was flat, one spun and one unpredictable.

Hence can't call it one of the best places for pacers and flat pancakes simultaneously while just switching between Viv and Marshall......

 

[subshakerz]

Dude didn't schedule the Tests ffs

Neither did Lillee but we deduct for him

 

[ataraxia]

Neither did Lillee but we deduct for him

No you don't lol; the guy has a standardised average of 28.5 and I'm sure you still rate him top 15 at least.

 

[kyear2]

Hence can't call it one of the best places for pacers and flat pancakes simultaneously while just switching between Viv and Marshall......

There were 3 countries referenced, you're just picking on one.

And you're just being disingenuous or idiotic, can't be bothered to discern which.

There's a mix of conditions in the region, aa there should be in most nations.

 

[Randomfan]

How many of you think about comparing tier 1 bowlers with tier 1 batsmen? I find it hard.

Now if they are in different tiers or something jumps out then it becomes easier, but if nothing jumps out then how do you go about this?

 

[Coronis]

How many of you think about comparing tier 1 bowlers with tier 1 batsmen? I find it hard.

Now if they are in different tiers or something jumps out then it becomes easier, but if nothing jumps out then how do you go about this?

You shouldn’t be comparing them. Its a stupid premise.

 

[subshakerz]

No you don't lol; the guy has a standardised average of 28.5 and I'm sure you still rate him top 15 at least.

No he is a top 10 bowler for me.

 

[Randomfan]

You shouldn’t be comparing them. Its a stupid premise.

Not sure about stupid, but I find it almost imposisble.

Some time a factor can make it easy like different tier or great output for a far longer time or something else, but over all when things are equal I am simply going to leave tier 1 batsman vs tier 1 bowler comparison alone. I can't make up my mind when things are close and don't know how to even start.

 

[capt_Luffy]

There were 3 countries referenced, you're just picking on one.

And you're just being disingenuous or idiotic, can't be bothered to discern which.

There's a mix of conditions in the region, aa there should be in most nations.

Like you are ignoring that 80s Australia and England weren't particularly bowling friendly either and had mid attacks mostly??

 

[DrWolverine]

How many of you think about comparing tier 1 bowlers with tier 1 batsmen? I find it hard.

It’s almost impossible and illogical as well.

But it makes for an entertaining debate.

 

[Johan]

No you don't lol; the guy has a standardised average of 28.5 and I'm sure you still rate him top 15 at least.

He has Hadlee in top 3

 

[capt_Luffy]

No you don't lol; the guy has a standardised average of 28.5 and I'm sure you still rate him top 15 at least.

To avoid plagiarism:

It's perpetually hilarious how Lillee flunks both analysis by checklist and standardised averages.

 

[sayon basak]

You shouldn’t be comparing them. Its a stupid premise.

You must be the new guy.

 

[Thala_0710]

Not sure about stupid, but I find it almost imposisble.

Some time a factor can make it easy like different tier or great output for a far longer time or something else, but over all when things are equal I am simply going to leave tier 1 batsman vs tier 1 bowler comparison alone. I can't make up my mind when things are close and don't know how to even start.

It's just personal preference basically at that point, which you can justify by nitpicking stats/longevity etc