Richard Hadlee vs Viv Richards

[capt_Luffy]

Country by Country

Australia — Hadlee
England — Viv
India — idk, @capt_Luffy tell me
Pakistan — Viv
NZ — Hadlee duh
West Indies — Viv duh
.

I will say Viv just. A good ton ob debut series, one bad tour and then a good innings vs Hirwani. Hadlee was good, but pretty uneventful.

India : I would say Hadlee

India’s batting was better than our shitty bowling back then

A fair point. Don't think there's much between those 2 in India anyways.

 

[Johan]

India : I would say Hadlee

India’s batting was better than our shitty bowling back then

tbf, Viv did face the Quaret in the first series

 

[Johan]

I think you are taking it a bit far..... I rate Gooch quite highly, though probs not higher than consensus. Amarnath did even better, much better, in WI. Don't think you will entertain him over Gooch.

Is there context for the 5 ducks Amaranth has against WI in 1983-84?

 

[capt_Luffy]

tbf, Viv did face the Quaret in the first series

Viv flopped in the flattest series somehow

 

[Johan]

Viv flopped in the flattest series somehow

I've noticed this with Viv, he often fails when things are easy but succeeds when things are tough, just GOAT logic I think

 

[capt_Luffy]

Is there context for the 5 ducks Amaranth has against WI in 1983-84?

Yes. He batted like ****

No seriously, his home record is laughably bad compared to away, and not just for WI. Australia and Pakistan too.....

 

[Johan]

Yes. He batted like ****

No seriously, his home record is laughably bad compared to away, and not just for WI. Australia and Pakistan too.....

How you finna go and average 66 in West Indies against THE Windies lineup on fast bouncy wickets and then come home and average 0.17 against them on slow, indian wickets.

Home: 1370@30.44
Away: 3008@51.86

 

[sayon basak]

I think you are taking it a bit far..... I rate Gooch quite highly, though probs not higher than consensus. Amarnath did even better, much better, in WI. Don't think you will entertain him over Gooch.

Because he didn't flop at home.

 

[capt_Luffy]

How you finna go and average 66 in West Indies against THE Windies lineup on fast bouncy wickets and then come home and average 0.17 against them on slow, indian wickets.

Home: 1370@30.44
Away: 3008@51.86

He did so time and time, again and again.

Averaged close to 50 vs WI with Holding and Roberts in 76, won 2 MOTMs and should have grabbed another in 83 (the scorecards of those 3 Tests really makes me respect him..... Until I look at the scorecard with 5 ducks), two straight Great tours in Pakistan, the later against peak Imran with bottlecap (imo top 2 ever in Pakistan) and averages 55+ in Australia...... I think his away record being as good as Gavaskar, arguably better, is not a hyperbole. How could you manage to do that away, in vastly different conditions nonetheless; and totally **** yourself in flat home wickets is a Real mystery to me.

Funnily enough, the only team he did great against at home and struggled away (though only 4 matches) is England......

 

[Johan]

He did so time and time, again and again.

Averaged close to 50 vs WI with Holding and Roberts in 76, won 2 MOTMs and should have grabbed another in 83 (the scorecards of those 3 Tests really makes me respect him..... Until I look at the scorecard with 5 ducks), two straight Great tours in Pakistan, the later against peak Imran with bottlecap (imo top 2 ever in Pakistan) and averages 55+ in Australia...... I think his away record being as good as Gavaskar, arguably better, is not a hyperbole. How could you manage to do that away, in vastly different conditions nonetheless; and totally **** yourself in flat home wickets is a Real mystery to me.

Funnily enough, the only team he did great against at home and struggled away (though only 4 matches) is England......

I like this guy

 

[sayon basak]

I like this guy

You should also like Qadir imo.

 

[kyear2]

Not saying Viv would have failed against WI pace quartet.

It would have been interesting to see one of the best players of fast bowling going up against 4 of the best pacers who are different from one another.

One of?

 

[kyear2]

Hadlee played 70% in Australia, Eng and home; Viv did 68%

But you know those three were the more conducive places for pacers and a bit harder for batsmen.


In any event, I have no issues with Hadlee over Viv, but some of the reasons are reaching a bit.

Both in my elite 8 guys of all time.

 

[capt_Luffy]

But you know those three were the more conducive places for pacers and a bit harder for batsmen.


In any event, I have no issues with Hadlee over Viv, but some of the reasons are reaching a bit.

Both in my elite 8 guys of all time.

WI was the most conducive place for pacers???

 

[Johan]

I'd argue 80s WI tracks did have the pace and the uneven bounce, 70s ones are more tricky, there are dry spin favouring ones and then pace favouring ones too

 

[Coronis]

I've noticed this with Viv, he often fails when things are easy but succeeds when things are tough, just GOAT logic I think

Poor. Dusting off weaker teams is important too imo.

“Minnow bashing” or bashing weaker teams should be seen as a positive.

 

[Johan]

Poor. Dusting off weaker teams is important too imo.

“Minnow bashing” or bashing weaker teams should be seen as a positive.

I don't really value scoring off of Minnow level attacks as at that point it's just padding but I do rate the ability to dominate weaker attacks as that brings value to the team and wins you games, being "fair weather" is not a bad thing.

 

[Coronis]

I don't really value scoring off of Minnow level attacks as at that point it's just padding but I do rate the ability to dominate weaker attacks as that brings value to the team and wins you games, being "fair weather" is not a bad thing.

Well yeah I put minnow bashing in quotes as the majority of times rhe term is used its used incorrectly.

 

[Johan]

Well yeah I put minnow bashing in quotes as the majority of times rhe term is used its used incorrectly.

if a team is older than 40 years and doesn't have atleast 1 ATG or ATVG bowler among them, they'll be termed minnows.

 

[sayon basak]

if a team is older than 40 years and doesn't have atleast 1 ATG or ATVG bowler among them, they'll be termed minnows.

What if the team is 20 years old? Are they non-minnows?