Richard Hadlee vs Ian Botham

[kyear2]

If Bradman isn’t number one, it is a huge red flag


Maybe the most important figure in cricket. But including him as one of the greatest ever doesn’t sit right with me.

If Bradman isn't no 1, it isn't just a flag. It's ignored.

Grace anywhere in the top 3 is fine. I don't include him, but I understand why others do.

 

[sayon basak]

No but there is a BBC vote list

BBC - The Greatest Cricketer of All Time – your votes revealed!

You voted for your favourite from a list 30 all-time greatest cricketers.

www.bbc.co.uk

That comes as the first result when you search "greatest cricketers of all time".

 

[kyear2]

Do you have the TMS and Radio times list?

Public lists are just as horrible.

 

[subshakerz]

Public lists are just as horrible.

They are popularity contests.

 

[kyear2]

That comes as the first result when you search "greatest cricketers of all time".

And appropriately garbage. Think Dhoni and Virat are both in the top 10?

 

[sayon basak]

And appropriately garbage. Think Dhoni and Virat are both in the top 10?

Yeah.

 

[sayon basak]

Which one of the two lists are you laughing at?

 

[kyear2]

It sounds like you agree Hadlee was underrated, or am I reading you wrong?

I have him high because I rate him top 3. The guys who played against him or watched him don't. They have Lillee, McGrath, Warne, Murali, Trueman etc ahead of him and rate him accordingly. I also don't really factor in his batting into the ratings much, so if you have those guys rated higher than him, then it's understandable. I just don't. Especially not Trueman and the likes.

As I've said before, the two countries I'm absolutely least familiar with are SL and NZ.

 

[kyear2]

Which one of the two lists are you laughing at?

The owns that Subz hand picked, for obvious reasons, even though he knows they are ridiculous. Viv and Imran are not the top top players of all time. The other had Dhoni 10th and Virat 12th.

At the end of the day, all this has proven to me though, is that it's best just to rate guys in their disciples, because as I've said. Outside of the top 2 or 3 it's just chaos and people get list in the shuffle.

 

[sayon basak]

The owns that Subz hand picked, for obvious reasons, even though he knows they are ridiculous. Viv and Imran are not the top top players of all time. The other had Dhoni 10th and Virat 12th.

At the end of the day, all this has proven to me though, is that it's best just to rate guys in their disciples, because as I've said. Outside of the top 2 or 3 it's just chaos and people get list in the shuffle.

The first list was for last 40 years tho.

The BBC one is definitely laughable.

 

[subshakerz]

I have him high because I rate him top 3. The guys who played against him or watched him don't. They have Lillee, McGrath, Warne, Murali, Trueman etc ahead of him and rate him accordingly. I also don't really factor in his batting into the ratings much, so if you have those guys rated higher than him, then it's understandable. I just don't. Especially not Trueman and the likes.

As I've said before, the two countries I'm absolutely least familiar with are SL and NZ.

Is he underrated by these pundits? Stop dodging.

The owns that Subz hand picked, for obvious reasons, even though he knows they are ridiculous. Viv and Imran are not the top top players of all time. The other had Dhoni 10th and Virat 12th.

At the end of the day, all this has proven to me though, is that it's best just to rate guys in their disciples, because as I've said. Outside of the top 2 or 3 it's just chaos and people get list in the shuffle.

The Scyld Berry one was for the last 40 years.

The ESPN one had a diverse intl expert panel.

Don't know why you are laughing.

 

[kyear2]

Is he underrated by these pundits? Stop dodging.


The Scyld Berry one was for the last 40 years.

The ESPN one had a diverse intl expert panel.

Don't know why you are laughing.

No. If an entire set if individuals rates someone in the exact same area, I assume they know something I don't.

Plus, at the end of the day, the only list that matters is yours.

Through I do feel more comfortable with having Pigeon ahead of him now, lol.

There's a consensus top 2 , the rest is subjective as hell and just go with what u want.

 

[subshakerz]

No. If an entire set if individuals rates someone in the exact same area, I assume they know something I don't.

Plus, at the end of the day, the only list that matters is yours.

Through I do feel more comfortable with having Pigeon ahead of him now, lol.

There's a consensus top 2 , the rest is subjective as hell and just go with what u want.

I don't believe for a second you are being honest here. You just don't want to concede a blatantly obvious point (pundits generally underrated Hadlee) because it could be used in favor of Imran, which is just sad.

This is the problem with arguing with you. Very shifty.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Imran has the claims for the greatest ever cricketer with Sobers.

Stop pretending peeps.

There are 99.94 reasons why I disagree.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Guess that would be different outside CW. Botham is rated higher than Hadlee as a cricketer outside cricketweb afaik.

Probably only in England

 

[Johan]

Hadlee is glazed endlessly here for the 1986 England series and for sticking it to the poms

 

[peterhrt]

@peterhrt could you please provide the TMS and Radio times list? I could not find them.

Link to Radio Times list below.

Best cricketers of all time

Our pick of 20 of the greatest male cricketers ever to have played the game

www.radiotimes.com

TMS Top 100 (1999): 1 Bradman, 2 Grace, 3 Hobbs, 4 Sobers, 5 Lara, 6 Botham, 7 Viv Richards, 8 Hutton, 9 Warne, 10 Wilfred Rhodes, 11 Hammond, 12 Gavaskar, 13 Tendulkar, 14 Lillee, 15 Barry Richards, 16 Barnes, 17 Holding, 18 Imran, 19 Compton, 20 O'Reilly

21 Herbert Sutcliffe, 22 Shrewsbury, 23 Headley, 24 Benaud, 25 Kapil Dev, 26 Lohmann, 27 Knott, 28 Steve Waugh, 29 Spofforth, 30 Gooch, 31 Evans. 32 Trumper, 33 Procter, 34 Clive Lloyd, 35 Ambrose, 36 Graeme Pollock, 37 Greg Chappell, 38 Hadlee, 39 Worrell, 40 Marsh

41 Lindwall, 42 Trueman, 43 Laker, 44 Gower, 45 Boycott, 46 Fry, 47 Statham, 48 Bobby Simpson, 49 Larwood, 50 Jardine, 51 Aravinda de Silva, 52 Border, 53 Ian Chappell, 54 Bert Sutcliffe, 55 Jack Russell, 56 Jonty Rhodes, 57 Lawry, 58 Walcott, 59 Weekes, 60 Lance Gibbs

61 MacLaren, 62 Underwood, 63 Grimmett, 64 Constantine, 65 Wasim Bari, 66 Willis, 67 Keith Miller, 68 Bedser, 69 Dexter, 70 Cowdrey, 71 Harvey, 72 Thomson, 73 Waqar, 74 Donald, 75 Marshall, 76 Wes Hall, 77 John Reid, 78 Peter May, 79 Greenidge, 80 Geoff Howarth

81 Randall, 82 Kanhai, 83 Javed Miandad, 84 Snow, 85 Ponsford, 86 Ranjitsinhji, 87 Greig, 88 Chandrasekhar, 89 Merv Hughes, 90 Illingworth, 91 Barrington, 92 Tate, 93 Bedi, 94 Martin Crowe, 95 Hanif, 96 Ramadhin, 97 Close, 98 Brearley, 99 Gatting, 100 Kallicharran

 

[BazBall21]

Link to Radio Times list below.

Best cricketers of all time

Our pick of 20 of the greatest male cricketers ever to have played the game

www.radiotimes.com

TMS Top 100 (1999): 1 Bradman, 2 Grace, 3 Hobbs, 4 Sobers, 5 Lara, 6 Botham, 7 Viv Richards, 8 Hutton, 9 Warne, 10 Wilfred Rhodes, 11 Hammond, 12 Gavaskar, 13 Tendulkar, 14 Lillee, 15 Barry Richards, 16 Barnes, 17 Holding, 18 Imran, 19 Compton, 20 O'Reilly

21 Herbert Sutcliffe, 22 Shrewsbury, 23 Headley, 24 Benaud, 25 Kapil Dev, 26 Lohmann, 27 Knott, 28 Steve Waugh, 29 Spofforth, 30 Gooch, 31 Evans. 32 Trumper, 33 Procter, 34 Clive Lloyd, 35 Ambrose, 36 Graeme Pollock, 37 Greg Chappell, 38 Hadlee, 39 Worrell, 40 Marsh

41 Lindwall, 42 Trueman, 43 Laker, 44 Gower, 45 Boycott, 46 Fry, 47 Statham, 48 Bobby Simpson, 49 Larwood, 50 Jardine, 51 Aravinda de Silva, 52 Border, 53 Ian Chappell, 54 Bert Sutcliffe, 55 Jack Russell, 56 Jonty Rhodes, 57 Lawry, 58 Walcott, 59 Weekes, 60 Lance Gibbs

61 MacLaren, 62 Underwood, 63 Grimmett, 64 Constantine, 65 Wasim Bari, 66 Willis, 67 Keith Miller, 68 Bedser, 69 Dexter, 70 Cowdrey, 71 Harvey, 72 Thomson, 73 Waqar, 74 Donald, 75 Marshall, 76 Wes Hall, 77 John Reid, 78 Peter May, 79 Greenidge, 80 Geoff Howarth

81 Randall, 82 Kanhai, 83 Javed Miandad, 84 Snow, 85 Ponsford, 86 Ranjitsinhji, 87 Greig, 88 Chandrasekhar, 89 Merv Hughes, 90 Illingworth, 91 Barrington, 92 Tate, 93 Bedi, 94 Martin Crowe, 95 Hanif, 96 Ramadhin, 97 Close, 98 Brearley, 99 Gatting, 100 Kallicharran

These lists are impossible but that's bizarre.

 

[peterhrt]

I wouldn't put random websites with fan votes with pundit list

I think they were all pundit lists. Agree fan/public votes should be ignored.

 

[peterhrt]

These lists are impossible but that's bizarre.

Media lists often have a target audience. Sometimes you have to filter that out. And differentiate between genuine experts and guys picking their mates.

One problem is that it is too easy to dismiss every list/set of opinions as rubbish apart from our own, and assume a consensus exists that we agree with. That way preconceived ideas just get reinforced.