Rest of the World XIs to play Australia

[Eclipse]

good side's Bazza.

I would have Vaughan instead of Richardson in tests even know his form is not great. I think he is just a class act and he has done well against Australia.

And Trescothik is a little doubtfull for mine I would like to see him maintain his form for a few more games first.

 

[Craig]

And who, once the English worked him out couldn't buy a run?

The one who's 277 should've been 8 and his series would then have been a pretty poor one?


And what's this obsession with Vaas - he's a handy bowler, but nothing at all special!

Well what is your obession ith Flintoff and Giles? They are both handy but nothing at all special as well, so you arent in a position to say that.

 

[gibbsnsmith]

Brett Lee happens to be Australian.

DOH! smacks himself for being a tit
then swap him for Ntini

 

[marc71178]

Well what is your obession ith Flintoff and Giles? They are both handy but nothing at all special as well, so you arent in a position to say that.

Flintoff is probably, on current form, one of the top 3 all-rounders in World Cricket - so nothing special (in terms of all time greats) there, but a very good player on current form.


Where have I even mentioned Giles recently, and especially in this thread?

 

[Cloete]

Flintoff is probably, on current form, one of the top 3 all-rounders in World Cricket - so nothing special (in terms of all time greats) there, but a very good player on current form.


Where have I even mentioned Giles recently, and especially in this thread?

yeah but it still only makes him a handy bowler. bar Kallis you can't exactly say we have great all rounders. Cairns WAS up ther but not any more.

 

[Mr. P]

I don't think you can rank Flintoff that highly. I would put even Astle or Styris ahead of him. Yet i agree with some points made. With the exception of Kallis, and to a lesser extent Pollock, the breed of good allrounders have rather dried up. And to be honest, i dont really think this is a bad thing.

 

[marc71178]

Sorry Mr P, you rank Astle and Styris as better all rounders than Flintoff?

I wouldn't mind betting that and New Zealander we asked wouldn't do that!

 

[Cloete]

Sorry Mr P, you rank Astle and Styris as better all rounders than Flintoff?

I wouldn't mind betting that and New Zealander we asked wouldn't do that!

yeah i think that's goign too far. the fact is he's a good all-rounder (like you said top 3) but it just depends if top 3 material is good enough for the one all roudner spot and pollock in as a bowler?

 

[marc71178]

yeah i think that's goign too far. the fact is he's a good all-rounder (like you said top 3) but it just depends if top 3 material is good enough for the one all roudner spot and pollock in as a bowler?

Depends what balance you want - if playing Kallis and Flintoff as 3rd and 4th seamers allows you to play 2 top quality spinners then it certainly is not to be sniffed at!

 

[Cloete]

Depends what balance you want - if playing Kallis and Flintoff as 3rd and 4th seamers allows you to play 2 top quality spinners then it certainly is not to be sniffed at!

yeah but what other spinner is quality?

 

[Tim]

I would seriously oppose any team using Nathan Astle or Scott Styris as their primary all-rounder..both are mainly batsmen who bowl at the moment.

I think Jacob Oram will be one of the top all-rounders in a years time though.

 

[marc71178]

yeah but what other spinner is quality?

Harbajan?

 

[Cloete]

I would seriously oppose any team using Nathan Astle or Scott Styris as their primary all-rounder..both are mainly batsmen who bowl at the moment.

I think Jacob Oram will be one of the top all-rounders in a years time though.

yeah that's true. young Mills looks the goods as well. but i don't think eitehr are up to it yet.

 

[marc71178]

I would seriously oppose any team using Nathan Astle or Scott Styris as their primary all-rounder..both are mainly batsmen who bowl at the moment.

I think Jacob Oram will be one of the top all-rounders in a years time though.

So he's a bit like a Flintoff in waiting then? Treat him right and he can become a star?

 

[Mr. P]

Flintoff isnt that great! He struggles to make the English team, let alone the world team! How long ago was it that the selectors were about to get rid of him? A couple of tests by my memory..

 

[Rik]

So he's a bit like a Flintoff in waiting then? Treat him right and he can become a star?

Before we get all excited and claim Freddy is something he isn't...let's remember he still has a Test bowling average of around 50, and he hardly took any wickets in the SA series. I don't feel Flintoff is good enough to be put down as 4th seamer in any team except Zimbabwe and Bangladesh at the moment, and his batting has only been successful for this series, who knows what will happen in the future? The only form of the game I feel he is one of the best all-rounders in the world in, is ODIs.

 

[Cloete]

Before we get all excited and claim Freddy is something he isn't...let's remember he still has a Test bowling average of around 50, and he hardly took any wickets in the SA series. I don't feel Flintoff is good enough to be put down as 4th seamer in any team except Zimbabwe and Bangladesh at the moment, and his batting has only been successful for this series, who knows what will happen in the future? The only form of the game I feel he is one of the best all-rounders in the world in, is ODIs.

yeah this is pretty much my view. but i rate him a bit better. i'd say he can turn into a good bowler. but at the mo he isn't ogod enough for 4th seamer.

 

[Tim]

NZ probably have the biggest pool of all-rounders in world cricket at the moment..Cairns, Adams, Mills, Oram & theres more like Tama Canning & James Franklin who have hardly played any international cricket.

Cairns is well documented, and its very unlikely that he'll ever return to his best but from the others I reckon if Adams manages to hone his skills a little there's no doubt that he'll be one of the best..Oram I think needs to back himself a little more.

Kyle Mills is a good player, has a FC average of around 48 & his bowling average in ODI's is very good..but he's batting way too low in the NZ lineup for him to show any all-rounder qualities at this stage.

 

[Cloete]

NZ probably have the biggest pool of all-rounders in world cricket at the moment..Cairns, Adams, Mills, Oram & theres more like Tama Canning & James Franklin who have hardly played any international cricket.

Cairns is well documented, and its very unlikely that he'll ever return to his best but from the others I reckon if Adams manages to hone his skills a little there's no doubt that he'll be one of the best..Oram I think needs to back himself a little more.

Kyle Mills is a good player, has a FC average of around 48 & his bowling average in ODI's is very good..but he's batting way too low in the NZ lineup for him to show any all-rounder qualities at this stage.

to be honest i always thought NZ had the best all rounders and th ebest chances of producing them. i remember in 1997-1998 or so they had so many sort of "bits an pieces" players. Astle, Horne(not certain if he did bowl, but i remember someone who opened with Astle in the batting used to bow a bit), Larsen (sp?), mcmillan, harris, cairns, nash (could it a few) and there was one other batsman who could bowl a bit. but the main thing i always remmeberd was that almost everyone in the NZ team could and would bowl. so i pretty much figured if NZ keeps going they way they are they could be producing more Cairns' in the future. but i think it's a really good thing for NZ Cricket to encourage youngsters to be all-rounders. Because NZ has such comparatively a small pool of players to choose from than to countries like england and australia. sdo the more all-rounders the better IMO. but then the issue comes up i fthey're good enough to earn a place just by batting or bowling i guess.

 

[Tim]

It kinda went like this:

In 1992-1995 we had Rod Latham, Gavin Larsen, Deepak Patel showing they could do a bit of bowling & also some batting

Between 1995 & 2000 we basically had the one genuine all-rounder in Chris Cairns, the rest including Astle, Harris, Shane Thomson, Matthew Hart etc were all 'bits & pieces' players, although arguably Astle has developed into something more than that now.

And currently in the present, I think NZ actually have a pool of proper all-rounders..by that I mean players who actually can bowl with pace & can average more than 20 with the bat. We've still got Harris, Styris, Astle hanging around..but they play a much lesser role than they would have 5 years ago.
Infact Chris Harris is lucky if he gets a bowl these days, which is interesting considering NZ couldn't live without his bowling a few years back.