Ranking the great fast bowlers

[AndyZaltzHair]

Ah memories of Moin Khan

 

[watson]

Interesting quotes Andy.

It seems as though the author favours Hadlee over Marshall (very slightly) because he had the added pressure of acting alone. This makes sense, because let's face it, Ewan Chatfield and Martin Snedden weren't the sort of bowlers who had the batsman calling for their mummy.

And yes, I remember that 9/52. I think it was shortly after that performance that Border tried to resign the captaincy in frustration (?)

 

[Arachnodouche]

This is pretty unscientific, but when I watch guys who have bowled fairly quick in recent times (Tait and Lee), and then watch footage of guys like Holding, Roberts, early Lillee and Thommo, the guys from the late 70s look so much faster than the modern guys.

A great clip from fire in babylon - YouTube

That second bouncer at 1.30 looks about as quick as anything i've seen. Might be just Holding's action though....

See, I don't get that, because I fail to see how someone can humanly bowl much faster than people like Lee, Tait, or Akhtar. From video footage, Roberts and latter day Lillee have always looked relative trundlers. Thompson and Holding, very fast though.

 

[kyear2]

You've hit the nail on the head.

This is the main problem with kyear2 I feel.

Akram could bowl some real magic deliveries that none of the other fast bowlers could. Yet he doesn't get any extra marks for style or skill (unlike Viv)

Might slip in a few great ones here

CRAP UMPIRING! PLUMB LBW - WASIM AKRAM 'MAGIC BALL' 1996 - YouTube

Bria Lara Toe broken by Wasim Akram - OUCH!.flv - YouTube

Wasim Akram Magic Ball - To Croft - YouTube

Waseem Akram's Superb ball to Rahul Dravid. - YouTube

Wasim Akram vs Marcus Trescothick - YouTube

Because his record didn't match his talent and he took, for an opening strike bowler, an inordinately high proportion of tail end wickets.

Where I do not have an issue so much is when he was picked for the cricinfo team, as he along with Garner, though for different reasons, were among the greatest old ball bowlers ever and he offered a lhb option.
.
Why do I always have to justify my opinions, no one else here has to. I did not like Hadlee's attitude and as the article said he played all but 17 tests in N.Z, Aus and England, he had his run of the tail most innings if things didn't go well, he never had a plan B. He was mainly one dimensional who was a handful on a green top.

I think Mcgrath is a better version of Hadlee and he played everywhere and was succesful everywhere, minus the minnows. He took on the best in his era and stood toe to toe with them.

My Opinion, no one says anything to you about your obsession with all things Pakistani, let me be.

 

[smash84]

that is because you seem very very inconsistent in your views...ever thought of that?

Hadlee was mainly one dimensional and McGrath wasn't?

 

[smash84]

btw....Hadlee isn't Pakistani

 

[watson]

Because his record didn't match his talent and he took, for an opening strike bowler, an inordinately high proportion of tail end wickets.

Where I do not have an issue so much is when he was picked for the cricinfo team, as he along with Garner, though for different reasons, were among the greatest old ball bowlers ever and he offered a lhb option.
.
Why do I always have to justify my opinions, no one else here has to. I did not like Hadlee's attitude and as the article said he played all but 17 tests in N.Z, Aus and England, he had his run of the tail most innings if things didn't go well, he never had a plan B. He was mainly one dimensional who was a handful on a green top.

I think Mcgrath is a better version of Hadlee and he played everywhere and was succesful everywhere, minus the minnows. He took on the best in his era and stood toe to toe with them.

My Opinion, no one says anything to you about your obsession with all things Pakistani, let me be.

India is not known for its green grass. Here is a comparison between Hadlee in India and Hadlee at home;

6 Tests in India (1976-1988) - 31 wickets at 22.22. Strike Rate = 44.0

43 Tests in NZ (1973-1990) - 201 wickets at 22.96. Strike Rate = 53.0


Incidently, here is Marshall's record in India;

9 Tests in India (1978-1983) - 36 wickets at 24.61. Strike Rate = 49.8

31 Tests in WI (1981-1991) - 157 wickets at 20.06. Strike Rate = 42.4


As you can see kyear, Hadlee and Marshall both had similar records in India and therefore were both excellent bowlers on flat brown Indian pitches.

(It should be noted that both bowlers had to contend with the great Sunil Gavaskar)

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Interesting quotes Andy.

It seems as though the author favours Hadlee over Marshall (very slightly) because he had the added pressure of acting alone. This makes sense, because let's face it, Ewan Chatfield and Martin Snedden weren't the sort of bowlers who had the batsman calling for their mummy.

And yes, I remember that 9/52. I think it was shortly after that performance that Border tried to resign the captaincy in frustration (?)

Right the author puts Hadlee above by a very thin margin

 

[Flem274*]

Because his record didn't match his talent and he took, for an opening strike bowler, an inordinately high proportion of tail end wickets.

Where I do not have an issue so much is when he was picked for the cricinfo team, as he along with Garner, though for different reasons, were among the greatest old ball bowlers ever and he offered a lhb option.
.
Why do I always have to justify my opinions, no one else here has to. I did not like Hadlee's attitude and as the article said he played all but 17 tests in N.Z, Aus and England, he had his run of the tail most innings if things didn't go well, he never had a plan B. He was mainly one dimensional who was a handful on a green top.

I think Mcgrath is a better version of Hadlee and he played everywhere and was succesful everywhere, minus the minnows. He took on the best in his era and stood toe to toe with them.

My Opinion, no one says anything to you about your obsession with all things Pakistani, let me be.

I don't know why people bother arguing with you.

Questioning his attitude perhaps the stupidest statement in a paragraph of stupid statements.

Btw your discredit Hadlee logic gives Crowe the numbers of an all time great since he was the man on these NZ, Australian and English green tops. Even including his first ten or so tests where he was dire he still averages 50 on pace friendly pitches in one of the greatest eras for pace bowling ever, as shown by some hack called Hadlee hauling in great figures. What a hero.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting

I'll play this game all day.

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Kyar nitpicks everyones record, except when it comes to players from West Indies.

 

[ankitj]

it is entirely possible that no player in Test history has ever been more valuable for their team, including Murali

Agree.

 

[smash84]

I don't know why people bother arguing with you.



I'll play this game all day.

 

[kingkallis]

Btw your discredit Hadlee logic gives Crowe the numbers of an all time great since he was the man on these NZ, Australian and English green tops. Even including his first ten or so tests where he was dire he still averages 50 on pace friendly pitches in one of the greatest eras for pace bowling ever, as shown by some hack called Hadlee hauling in great figures. What a hero.

I dont know much about others but I do put Martin in the league of Chappels and Barringtons and Dravids for what he did on those bowling friendly wickets. I always pick Crowe in my draft teams due to this. A classy player, really.

 

[kyear2]

I don't know why people bother arguing with you.

Questioning his attitude perhaps the stupidest statement in a paragraph of stupid statements.

Btw your discredit Hadlee logic gives Crowe the numbers of an all time great since he was the man on these NZ, Australian and English green tops. Even including his first ten or so tests where he was dire he still averages 50 on pace friendly pitches in one of the greatest eras for pace bowling ever, as shown by some hack called Hadlee hauling in great figures. What a hero.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo


The fact that you nitpick every statement I make and question how I see things and how thwy relate to a players legacy is the stupidest statement. You cannot tell me how to view a player. His attitude affects how I view and rate him, deal with it or dont. I dont care.

btw who mods the mods.

 

[kyear2]

Never called him a hack, still in the top 10, and yes a great bowler.

 

[kyear2]

Kyar nitpicks everyones record, except when it comes to players from West Indies.

That is not a fair statement, as I have criticized many W.I greats. Ambrose and his steike rate, Garner and his tail end wkts, Holdings lack of fitness during his career. Sobers primarlily batting at 6.

Additionally I have advocated for Mcgrath, Warne, Barry Richards, Ponting, Waqar, Lillee (when not in comparrison with Malcolm ), Chappell ect.

 

[smash84]

The fact that you nitpick every statement I make and question how I see things and how thwy relate to a players legacy is the stupidest statement. You cannot tell me how to view a player. His attitude affects how I view and rate him, deal with it or dont. I dont care.

btw who mods the mods.

 

[watson]

Hadlee in action taking a bucket full;

Richard Hadlee 5/34 & 6/68 vs West Indies 1979/80 1st test - YouTube

RJ Hadlee At The Gabba - YouTube

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Some great footage there

 

[akilana]

Kyar nitpicks everyones record, except when it comes to players from West Indies.

not true. have seen him criticizing some west indian players, including ambrose..

Because his record didn't match his talent and he took, for an opening strike bowler, an inordinately high proportion of tail end wickets.

Agree with you about akram being over-rated but disagree with your point that slightly high proportion of tail end wickets does affect how bowlers should be rated.