Ranking the great fast bowlers

[G.I.Joe]

Wasim had to contend with Pakistani fielders. His raw numbers were bound to be affected by this.

 

[Burgey]

Did Hadlee ever explain that little skip at the start of his run? I've never sen anyone else do that, before or since.

Such a professional.

 

[kyear2]

Wasim had to contend with Pakistani fielders. His raw numbers were bound to be affected by this.

Tell that to smali who thinks great slip fielding/ fielding is over rated.

 

[smash84]

Tell that to smali who thinks great slip fielding/ fielding is over rated.

slip fielding wasn't his main concern. It was the all round fielding effort. Every series you see so many catches going down

 

[watson]

Some great footage there

Yes, I was also amused to see the skip at the beginning of Hadlee's run-up again.

Here is an absolute cracker of an over against Ian Botham;

Richard Hadlee vs Ian Botham- supreme swing bowling, what a master! - YouTube

The interesting thing about Hadlee's bowling is his lethal bouncer. I've never noticed it before, but seeing it in action against Australia, the West Indies, and here in the Ian Botham video I would rate it as one of the best in the game.

You can tell that it's a faster ball because it is through the batsman before he can get his feet in the correct position, but there is simply NO change in the action or the amount of effort. Just perfect rythmn.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Tell that to smali who thinks great slip fielding/ fielding is over rated.

It wasn't just the slip fielding. There's also ground fielding. If one conservatively estimates that the Pakistanis conceded an extra boundary for every 20 overs Wasim bowled, that's bumped his bowling average up by 2 right there.

 

[kyear2]

I said slip fielding/fielding, that means both. Are you guys serious?

 

[G.I.Joe]

Well, you claimed that you don't rate Wasim that high because his record didn't match his talent. I'm just saying there's a reason why the numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

[akilana]

but one could say from watching that akram wasn't in the league of marshall, hadlee etc

 

[smash84]

but one could say from watching that akram wasn't in the league of marshall, hadlee etc

Are you sure you really watched Akram bowl?

 

[silentstriker]

Could you? I'm not so sure about that.

 

[silentstriker]

I mean I certainly rate both Marshall and Imran higher than Wasim but I don't think there's that much between the top five to ten bowlers to be honest - which both Marshall and Wasim belong in my opinion (excluding Barnes because I don't know how to judge him, I'd have McGrath, Marshall, Ambrose, Lillee, Wasim, Imran, Trueman, Hadlee all in the top "league" and I'm probably missing a couple). At that level I don't think anyone is head and shoulders (except McGrath : p) above anyone else.

 

[kyear2]

but one could say from watching that akram wasn't in the league of marshall, hadlee etc

Let me do my best to clarify, they are all great bowlers, to separate them one has to look into their records to find any distinguishing factors, not a slight, not nitpicking. It's that or to say they are all equal, and unless I have misunderstood, thats not the point of this forum of free and open cricket discussion.

 

[kyear2]

Well, you claimed that you don't rate Wasim that high because his record didn't match his talent. I'm just saying there's a reason why the numbers don't tell the whole story.

And al Il was saying is tell that to smali as he believes that the value of great fielding is over rated.

 

[smash84]

And al Il was saying is tell that to smali as he believes that the value of great fielding is over rated.

errr no.....my point was that I wasn't so sure that an awesome slip cordon was a pre requisite to a team becoming great.

 

[kyear2]

Its not a pre-requisite, but it has been a feature of all the great modern teams. It makes a difference and I don't see why you can't accept that. A great cordon is a fast bowlers best friend (or Fred Goodall) and would have helped Wasim or any other fast man, or spinner for that matter.

 

[akilana]

Are you sure you really watched Akram bowl?

I've seen more of Akram than other bowlers and growing up in subcontinent helps.

 

[smash84]

and did you watch hadlee and marshall too?

 

[kyear2]

Speaking of Hadlee, reading his auto-biography now, interesting read. We all know he rates Lillee the greatest bowler ever and pratically worshipped him, rates Sobers the greatest All-Rounder ever by some margin, rated Imran the best of his era, but didn't rate his captaincy ashe said he "didn't exercise control of his players and isn't an astute skipper", also holds a declaration againts him when Hadlee was going for a 5'fer and 400 wkts. Bllames the West Indies for the lack of good spinners in the era sayng that they "have a lot to answer for" and dislikes their style of bowling as it's not they way the game should be played and asks "when will it end", though apparently didn't know that they just learned from the Aussies and apparently didn't have a problem when Lille and Thompson were doing it.

Importantly he says that he doesn't rate himself a true All Rounder as he couldn't play as a batsman in the top 6 or 7 with only two hundreds and a 92, he says that he was a bowler who could bat a bit.

 

[kyear2]

He rates Knott as the best keeper he has seen, and goes into how important the cordon (keeper to gully) is to fast bolwers and him in particular, naming the Chappell brothers the best he has seen in the position, and saying that Viv was brillian everywhere.