StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
We not talking IPL here.....
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Ranking the candidates for best fast/pace bowler ever: The Rankings thread
- Thread starter mr_mister
- Start date
Dendarii
International Debutant
I think there are two reason for that. One is that he's South Africa's best bowler across all formats, so there's the obvious desire to play him in everything.
The other is the thing which unfortunately is a part of South African team selection i.e. quotas. He has had to play a lot of cricket since his debut simply because there weren't a lot of black players who were able to command a regular spot. Hopefully, now that Ngidi has come onto the scene, Rabada's workload will be reduced (although obviously they need to be careful about not overplaying Ngidi either), and Dala can potentially be used as another alternative to meet the criteria, even if it's just in T20s for now.
Of course, Rabada would want to excel in T20s. If he proves himself as good bowler in the T20 format, the chances of him being picked for good money at the IPL increases. Mitchell Starc salary was around $1.5 million this IPL. Who wouldn’t like to get paid that much money for two months work? He plays for a few years and he is settled for life.
trundler
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Blind stats quarrying. Lillee bowled with a stress fracture. Roberts was at his best. Lillee remains untested in the subcontinent but he had all the tools to do so.
StephenZA
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
He is by far SA best bowler across formats but that last T20 ege was a joke. They were already on the plane. He is a bowler that needs game time; but playing him in just about everything is just foolish. I don't think there is a quota problem at the LO's level, as you say, we keep blooding new blood like Ngidi, Dala and with Andile in the team all the time quota should not be a problem there..
He was already picked up for $650 000 this last year, after getting a convenient tight back/shoulder he had to pull out following the Aus series.... he has no problems getting an IPL contract he does not need to play the pointless international T20's.
ankitj
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Andy Roberts does have a fantastic record in subcontinent (without ever playing Sri Lanka). Also has a significantly better record away than home (9 fivers away and 2 at home). That's something I will consider more carefully in future when ranking him amongst the great fast bowlers.
Late 70s had a couple of WI bowlers plus 80s players starting out. Early 70s had Lillee, plus the RSA guys, although they didn't play after 70. 60s and 50s had a few, although it might have been a bit threadbare in the late 60s. Might have been a time before or soon after WW2 where we saw something like Mcgrath/Steyn. It was an era of very few competitive teams + spin was dominating everywhere, so not much of a comparison.
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
I think Shannon Gabriel will be voted as one of the greatest fast bowlers of this century
We've flipped though in the last few years. We had some top quality bats a few years ago and almost no bowling. We might be a bit lacking in ATG bowlers at the moment, but we have a ton of very good ones.
Slifer
International Captain
That better be the joke.
trundler
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Future prospects look good, mostly SA and Pakistan's. Batemanahip is woeful though.
SillyCowCorner1
Moooo
I will not live to see that, perhaps Trundler will...
trundler
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I hope not. Don't want to live that long but I do have the strongest likelihood here.
Opinion:
1) Lillee had all the tools to succeed in subcontinent.
Facts:
1)Out of 355 wickets, Lillee picked only 28 wickets outside Aus/Eng.
2)In the 5 Tests he played in Pak/SL/WI, he picked 6 wickets at an average of over 90.
Lillee cannot be called as the best bowler of the 70s.
Ashwin is the fastest to achieve 300 wickets. But he cannot be called as great bowler yet. His average in Asian pitches is 23 while his average outside Asia is 42.
trundler
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Fact - he wasn't fit at all and the sample size is too small. Did well enough at the SCG and on flat decks when fit.
1) The mean batting average for the top seven batsmen for following decades.
70s: 36.7
80s: 35.8
90s: 35.3
00s: 38.2
2) Number of batsman who had an average of >50 in the following decade:
70s: 6
80s: 5
90s: 5
00s: 21
3) The mean bowling average per decade:
70s: 31.9
80s: 32.1
90s: 31.5
00s: 34.5
Source : Espncricinfo
As we have seen, batting has become much easier in the 2000s while bowling has become much tougher.
70s: 36.7
80s: 35.8
90s: 35.3
00s: 38.2
2) Number of batsman who had an average of >50 in the following decade:
70s: 6
80s: 5
90s: 5
00s: 21
3) The mean bowling average per decade:
70s: 31.9
80s: 32.1
90s: 31.5
00s: 34.5
Source : Espncricinfo
As we have seen, batting has become much easier in the 2000s while bowling has become much tougher.
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That's a bit like saying that there weren't many decent openers in the 20s if you ignore Hobbs and Sutcliffe.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Which Pakistani prospects?
Zinzan
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This is an excellent point which is not made often enough when reflecting on Lillee's career.
Clearly a very fine bowler in English, New Zealand and Australian conditions, but surely for the title of best bowler of a whole decade (1970s in this instance), that person needs a good record in all conditions, which includes the Subcontinent/West Indies.