Rank These 21st Century Pacers

[trundler]

The Matthews/Schultz comparison really drives the point home. Point well made

 

[TheJediBrah]

Anyone know how to find the position of batsmen that bowlers have got out in their career?

ie. what percentage of Starc's wickets were no. 8-11 and how that compares to other bowlers

 

[trundler]

Anyone know how to find the position of batsmen that bowlers have got out in their career?

ie. what percentage of Starc's wickets were no. 8-11 and how that compares to other bowlers

Test Cricket - Mitchell Starc - Wickets by Batting Order Graph

Test Cricket - Starc, M A - graph showing status (batting position) of batsmen dismissed by bowler

www.howstat.com

Cummins for comparison:

HowSTAT! Test Cricket - Pat Cummins - Wickets by Batting Order Graph

Test Cricket - Cummins, P J - graph showing status (batting position) of batsmen dismissed by bowler

howstat.com

McGrath took 40% top order wickets which I recall being a standout or perhaps even a record.

 

[Arachnodouche]

A wicket is a wicket. Every tailender that Starc fires out is one the rest couldn't get rid of so more power to him. He's got "a very specific set of skills" that makes him a nightmare for lesser batsmen, batsmen who these days might not as easily succumb to more orthodox bowling. If he can stop being erratic against the top order (which admittedly has been his weakness), why would anyone have a problem if all his wickets come from numbers 5-10?

 

[TheJediBrah]

So 31.6% of Starc's wickets are tailenders, not as much above the average as I would have thought looking at others

about the same as Steyn

 

[trundler]

So 31.6% of Starc's wickets are tailenders, not as much above the average as I would have thought looking at others

about the same as Steyn

Yeah but Steyn was picking up way more wickets a test so he took more top order wickets in addition to the tailenders.

Maybe he takes more top order wickets against hapless NZ/SL/Pak batsmen on tour.

A top order wicket is obviously worth more simply because of the higher average. Getting tailenders out is useful but I don't think it makes up for how Starc can be pressure release valve against the top order.

Also give my effort of linking the stats a like you frugal ****

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah but Steyn was picking up way more wickets a test so he took more top order wickets in addition to the tailenders.

Maybe he takes more top order wickets against hapless NZ/SL/Pak batsmen on tour.

A top order wicket is obviously worth more simply because of the higher average. Getting tailenders out is useful but I don't think it makes up for how Starc can be pressure release valve against the top order.

Also give my effort of linking the stats a like you frugal ****

Agreed. I'd have Pattinson and Jhye ahead of him for the Test side, though Pattinson looks like he might be past it sadly.

 

[Coronis]

Not saying it means anything specifically but fwiw Wasim’s tailender % was 35ish

 

[trundler]

Firmly in the Richardson is the real deal camp. Was a big miss in the Ashes last time. *** banging it in hard and him pitching it up and swinging it would be grade A fast bowling porn. He's gonna be what Damien Fleming should've been.

 

[Line and Length]

A wicket is a wicket. Every tailender that Starc fires out is one the rest couldn't get rid of so more power to him. He's got "a very specific set of skills" that makes him a nightmare for lesser batsmen, batsmen who these days might not as easily succumb to more orthodox bowling. If he can stop being erratic against the top order (which admittedly has been his weakness), why would anyone have a problem if all his wickets come from numbers 5-10?

True ... to an extent. What needs to be taken into consideration is the fact that Starc is regarded as a weapon against the tail and is often brought on for mop-up exercise. Others, who have toiled against recognised batsmen, would probably enjoy the same opportunity more frequently.

 

[Flem274*]

some bowlers kinda suck to the tail. you see it often when a bloke is on 4fer so the skipper offers him the #8 or #9 and he can't get it done.

tailend runs can be the difference. while a guy who only gets the tail is a bit of a prank, you always want someone in the team who can deal with them quickly. usually that's someone who can york them or hit them in the head.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

I like JRichardson, definitely think he has the potential to be genuinely world class as a bowler, but sadly it seems like he will be out of commission for a while after having more shoulder surgery

Correct in thinking his natrual length is a bit fuller than most going around here, and importantly he has enough pace to go with it as well

 

[morgieb]

I do somewhat worry that Richardson's bowling isn't super well-suited to home conditions, but he'll be a weapon outside of it. Looks an excellent bowler.

 

[honestbharani]

Didn't Jhye Richardson get injured again or something? His action is quite a bit like Steyn and I expect him to be very good, but he has to stay fit first.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Didn't Jhye Richardson get injured again or something? His action is quite a bit like Steyn and I expect him to be very good, but he has to stay fit first.

see GAS' post

out for a while apparently

 

[Burgey]

Getting tailenders out is useful but I don't think it makes up for how Starc can be pressure release valve against the top order.

He hasn't really been that in tests for about 18 months or so tbh. Even against India out here when they were bowling to substandard targets, none of the bowlers really let India score too freely for the most part. Was really attritional stuff, but I also wish he'd take more wickets up front.

 

[honestbharani]

Think part of Starc's wicket taking threat is his scatter gunning, TBH. He is more likely to bowl the unplayable delivery after serving up half volleys a few times and as a batsman, you also feel like you are set, putting away those half volleys and therefore less prepared for the snorter coming your way.

 

[stephen]

Think part of Starc's wicket taking threat is his scatter gunning, TBH. He is more likely to bowl the unplayable delivery after serving up half volleys a few times and as a batsman, you also feel like you are set, putting away those half volleys and therefore less prepared for the snorter coming your way.

Maybe in ODIs but not in tests. Pressure is everything in tests.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah, but you have Cummins or Haze at the other end, there is usually pressure anyways. And sometimes when batsmen are thinking defense and not release shots, they can get into a pretty good head space to survive the kinda balls you would think has your name on it. But when Starc gives out the odd freebie, you start thinking you are set when you are not quite set and kinda get a bit loose mentally, which does help the bowling side.

 

[stephen]

He hasn't really been that in tests for about 18 months or so tbh. Even against India out here when they were bowling to substandard targets, none of the bowlers really let India score too freely for the most part. Was really attritional stuff, but I also wish he'd take more wickets up front.

That series was cruel to the Australian bowlers. The MCG was such a featherbed and the bowlers did well to not let India run away with the game in the first innings at 4/5 rpo. That was all undermined by the most horrific batting innings I've ever been witness to. Even 8/15 didn't feel so bad.

Harris, Finch, S Marsh, M Marsh should all have been dropped and had their cards marked after that abomination of an innings.

I'm genuinely surprised that Cummins stayed injury free that season.