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- Thread starter Slifer
- Start date
OverratedSanity
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_00_deathscar
International Regular
A few of those guys played their cricket before/around the time India was just a new nation. Most of the others are good players, yea, but hardly in the top tier class apart from a couple.
My point is when you have to start listing a few players from 75 years ago and the rest of the list is a much of a muchness, maybe England aren't particularly prolific at producing great middle order bats and certainly not above India who have produced genuinely great middle order bats with regularity in the last ~40-odd years?
TheJediBrah
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Well yeah I thought it went without saying that England and Australia have a bit of a leg-up considering they've played cricket for so much longer
"Propensity" as used in the OP suggests something being done frequently so there is a measure of time in this rankings and how often a great comes along in each country in a particular role
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
An argument that needs closer examination. This statetement applies equally to Grace's peers and opponents. If he was facing bowlers suffering from poor nutrition and fitness, surely he should have registered a higher batting average than his 32.29 would indicate. There is no doubt that WG is a giant figure in cricket history but, at the risk of sounding blasphemous, I believe he is over-rated in some quarters.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Giffen, Noble, Trumble, Saunders, Hordern, Mailey, Johnson, Benaud, Mallett, Yardley, MacGill, Lyon. That's chronologically and off the top of my head so I may have missed some.
Of course if you take the top three away from anyone it makes a difference - particularly when the top three are among the best five or six of all time. But what's left is still a bloody good collection of spinners, including several genuinely great ones.
Slifer
International Captain
With all due respect, never said my rankings were set in stone. Fwiw, I also ranked England above the WI which is highly debatable as well now that I think about it....
32.29 is high with the bat for that era, it's the equivalent of about 50 right now.
Also for extra stress on debuting too late in tests (cricinfo)
In the decade 1871 to 1880 he averaged 49, a period during which nobody else averaged more than 26 or scored even a third of his runs. He also took 1174 wickets in the 10 years, which was the second-best in the country after Alfred Shaw.
Burgey
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Not really.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, I reckon you've underrated your boys there - West Indies are at least second for middle-order bats in my opinion, and potentially first. Bradman is the outlier of course (and Australia have a longer Test history and body of work) but take Bradman away and I reckon man for man the top 10-12 West Indians is at least the equal, and probably superior even to Australia.
Line and Length
Cricketer Of The Year
Fair comment, but I honestly don't rate more than a handful of those named.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
There's not much in it for me, but I think it has a lot to do with O'Reilly being much better against the very best - his record against England is considerably better than Grimmett's, and those were the games which mattered. Whereas against the "lesser" teams Grimmett was astonishingly successful while O'Reilly - admittedly from several fewer opportunities - was merely very, very good.
Slifer
International Captain
I probably have but I'm just so disillusioned by the fact that we literally have no one remotely close to test standard atm and much less any coming through. Every other team in contention: Oz, India, Pakistan, England has at least one or two coming through with more on the way...
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Bruce Taylor worth a mention too.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
That's...a difficult one to get behind.
271 & 16/166
School Boy/Girl Captain
Take into account playing on uncovered wickets, Grace's record was extraordinary, he completely dominated his era and must rank with Bradman and Sobers for relative dominance.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
We have Jadeja though, they don’t.