Rahul Dravid - What would you do? Is he still one of India's 6 best batsman?

[G.I.Joe]

Kneejerk reaction on both counts.

Badri having a good inning against a domestic attack shouldn't mean he walks in.

Yeah, because 1 good innings is what tilts it in Badri's favour How about an entire FC career?

Dravid still is fit enough on the field and still scoring at a reasonable average. There is no evidence that Badri will come in and do a better job.

There can be no evidence that any new player will do a better job than the incumbent. You're making no sense with that statement.

You won't get anywhere if you replace all the 35+ year olds just because they are old and performing a shade or two lower than how they used to perform. That's Chappel kind of stupid thinking.

First get your replacement to prove that he can do a better job...then we will talk about actually replacing the incumbent. The number 6 position in the batting order should be used for that.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You can not gather evidence of the replacement being better than the incumbent unless he's actually played at that level. That is plain common sense. All you can do is make a reasoned judgement.

You're not Andrew Hilditch by any chance, are you?

 

[kingjulian]

Yeah, because 1 good innings is what tilts it in Badri's favour How about an entire FC career?



There can be no evidence that any new player will do a better job than the incumbent. You're making no sense with that statement.




The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You can not gather evidence of the replacement being better than the incumbent unless he's actually played at that level. That is plain common sense. All you can do is make a reasoned judgement.

You're not Andrew Hilditch by any chance, are you?

Are you blind or did you miss the part where i say any contender has to prove it at number 6? In fact the BCCI selectors are already trying out a contender at number 6....wadyaknow..they have a brain..whowudathunkit.

Edit: Oh you even quoted that part, and said something about eating pudding....brilliant.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Are you blind or did you miss the part where i say any contender has to prove it at number 6? In fact the BCCI selectors are already trying out a contender at number 6....wadyaknow..they have a brain..whowudathunkit.

You know you're not restricted to replacing one batsman at a time?

 

[vcs]

I can see both sides of the argument.. on one hand, it's been more than two years and India still haven't found a convincing replacement for Ganguly, so having two inexperienced players at the same time could result in the batting getting worse than it is now, even considering Dravid's poor form.. on the other hand, we have been expecting the classic Dravid knock in a really testing situation for a while now, and it hasn't come. Tendulkar and Laxman have been forced to cover for him. It's certainly a tricky decision to make.

 

[kingjulian]

You know you're not restricted to replacing one batsman at a time?

Ya...look how far Chappell succeeded in making wholesale changes.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Ya...look how far Chappell succeeded in making wholesale changes.

There's no point to the debate if you're going to continue throwing in a flawed analogy that is both irrelevant and incomparable.

Good day.

 

[kingjulian]

flawed analogy that is both irrelevant and incomparable.

Could you kindly expound on that? Why is it flawed and why is incomparable? You've just behaved like my wife when she is losing a debate. Throw in words without any justification behind.

I'm saying you don't chop and change a team that is doing well. We did it once before when Chappell was around, and it didn't get us very far. Dravid is playing well enough. He is not setting anything on fire with his form but he has done enough to hold on to his place. Believe it or not, he has performed a crucial role in this series, and anyone with a clue would know him playing time against Steyn and Morkell new ball spells was crucial for the lower order to score some runs after him.

Further, we are already trying out two players in Pujara and Reina at number 6. One of them is touted as the long term replacement for Dravid. Why is a new player who has already had his time under the sun, and at best offers three or four years of Cricket at the top level, a desperate need for the team right now?

I'm sorry....but i just don't see it.

Edit: I just checked cricinfo. The man has a first class average of 46. A little better than Dravid's Test average in the last two years. I'm even more convinced you guys are chatting rubbish.

 

[kingjulian]

Apologies if my posting annoys a few people.

I'm tired of being politically and tactfully correct at work all day. I'm not going to come on here and be nice and try to make friends, i'm going to speak my mind and if anyone has a problem with that...."GAGF"...or whatever it is you say around here.

 

[Dasa]

Edit: I just checked cricinfo. The man has a first class average of 46. A little better than Dravid's Test average in the last two years. I'm even more convinced you guys are chatting rubbish.

Badrinath has a First Class average of 62.

 

[kingjulian]

Badrinath has a First Class average of 62.

Darn-it...it seems i was looking at the bowling numbers. I'm a novice at this stats business.

Annyhoo, i still don't see the need to bring him in, considering two things.

1. Rahul Dravid still has got some shelf-life.
2. We are already trying out Pujara, Vijay and Raina currently. Two of whom are capable of playing Rahul Dravid's role in the long run and are rated very highly in the domestic circuit.

If Pujara can prove that he can make runs in west indies and England, and Dravid continues his struggle, i would replace Dravid with Pujara and bring in someone new at number 6. I just don't think putting someone new and inexperienced at number 3 is going to magically strengthen the batting order at this point.

 

[Blaze 18]

Dravid isn't just performing "a shade or to lower than how he used to", he has been absolutely dismal. Like I said, you can't even put it down to form because he got two centuries against New Zealand at home. If he cannot get the job done in difficult conditions, then what is the point of having him in the side ? To score runs at home against lower ranked sides ? I am sure Murali Vijay can do that.

Look, it hurts me to say this, but he has nothing more to offer to the current side. Like G.I Joe said, we can't afford to have passengers in the batting line-up, given the current state of our bowling. While a Murali Vijay or a Virat Kohli may not be too much of an improvement in the short run, at least you can be sure that they will improve with time and age.

 

[Teja.]

As for the inexperienced bats argument, If there is a good time to launch 2 inexperienced batsman in the line-up, It is when you have 3 veterans in the line-up already.(Laxman,Sehwag,Sachin)

Basically, Giving Tendulkar and Laxman 2 years each, We have only 1 & 2 spots filled. We need batsman for 3,4,5 and 6. It's way better to do it gradually from now itself than to rush 3 new bats at once into the line-up when there are no veterans around.(except Sehwag)

 

[Jono]

Yeah I wanted Dravid to still be in the team for NZ and SA to see how he went.

I saw enough to think that:

a) it was the right decision to take him to South Africa
b) it is the right time to give Dravid a nudge, and get Badrinath or Kohli into the test team.

 

[marc71178]

3. Pujara currently has the "scope" to prove that he can be a long term successor to Dravid by playing better than Dravid at number 6.

How can he prove he's better than Dravid at 6 when Dravid is batting 3?

 

[kingjulian]

How can he prove he's better than Dravid at 6 when Dravid is batting 3?

It's a far better measure than using domestic cricket form as a guide for selection. It gives the selectors an opportunity to compare apples with apples. Example...Dravid vs Steyn etc and Pujara vs Steyn etc. Pujara certainly was not exposed with any weakness in technique. I think i would give him a border-line pass for what he did in the 4 outings in SA. We should be able to see them in action against West Indies and also England and make a more reasoned judgement. I have a feeling Pujara will take his chance, and in that event Dravid could be asked to retire and step aside gracefully.

He probably will want to retire in England anyway, as he made his Test debut there.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah I wanted Dravid to still be in the team for NZ and SA to see how he went.

I saw enough to think that:

a) it was the right decision to take him to South Africa
b) it is the right time to give Dravid a nudge, and get Badrinath or Kohli into the test team.

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

 

[Dissector]

Yes Dravid has been ordinary for a few years now. He is a great player who deserved a long leash and got it but it's clear that it's time for him to go. England is going to be a huge challenge and the West Indies tour would be a great opportunity for new players like Vijay to gain some test experience and hopefully some runs under their belts before meeting Anderson and co.

 

[Cruxdude]

Yeah I wanted Dravid to still be in the team for NZ and SA to see how he went.

I saw enough to think that:

a) it was the right decision to take him to South Africa
b) it is the right time to give Dravid a nudge, and get Badrinath or Kohli into the test team.

Agree. Now would be the best time to start getting in new guys. A year of touring England, and Australia would surely help a new batsman come to grips. I would rather new guys debut there and have a tough initiation rather than score bucket-loads in India.

 

[Jono]

Plus there is a tour of WI in between, which is almost the perfect "away from subcontinent" tour to give them a challenge but don't throw them into the absolute deep-end where they drown.

 

[GotSpin]

I'm sure Kemar Roach would give them an opportunity to wet their feet in test cricket